00:00:07:21 - 00:00:19:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Welcome back to Long-Distance Worklife. Where we help you lead, work and thrive in remote and hybrid teams. I'm Marisa Eikenberry, a fellow remote worker. And joining me is my co-host and remote work expert, Wayne Turmel. Hi, Wayne.

00:00:19:05 - 00:00:20:21
Wayne Turmel
Hello, Marisa. How are you?

00:00:20:22 - 00:00:22:05
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm great. How are you?

00:00:22:07 - 00:00:27:15
Wayne Turmel
I am well, actually, this is I think this is going to be a fun conversation.

00:00:27:17 - 00:00:55:16
Marisa Eikenberry
It usually is when we talk about pet peeves. But that being said, we had some of you send in pet peeves about meeting specifically. And so we're still continuing to dive into those, including in this episode. So I'm going to start with one that we got from Facebook from Brianne and it says It's been three years since the pandemic and I would have better luck demanding that someone procure me a unicorn before getting every single team member on a call with their camera on.

00:00:55:18 - 00:01:10:22
Marisa Eikenberry
So I know that we've talked several times about if it's a town hall kind of situation. Not everybody needs their cameras on. But what about if it's a team of three or four people and you're wanting engagement? Like, what can we do to get cameras on? Should we be trying to get cameras on?

00:01:11:01 - 00:01:26:21
Wayne Turmel
Oh, man, this quest, it's so funny. Before the pandemic, we push and push And push what? Your camera on. Put your camera and get people to put their camera on. And then they did. During the pandemic, some begrudgingly, some willingly. And we were.

00:01:26:21 - 00:01:27:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Lonely.

00:01:27:07 - 00:01:48:01
Wayne Turmel
It's kind of weird because we're desperate for human companionship, and any pork in the storm is fine. But then it's kind of reverted. And I'm going to say there are two parts to this conversation, right? The first part is, are there advantages to being on camera? The answer is, of course there are.

00:01:48:05 - 00:01:49:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Of course.

00:01:49:02 - 00:02:24:23
Wayne Turmel
Right. And it's funny because most people like seeing the other party. They just don't like being on camera. Right now, it is true that the larger the group, the less value there is in seeing everybody, because we are working from home. It's also possibly true that depending on time zones and what's going on in the place that you live and work, that there may be distractions and things going on that don't work really well.

00:02:25:02 - 00:02:56:16
Wayne Turmel
You know, I just got back from the gym. You know, the kids are running around. It's lunchtime and I've got to eat. Nobody needs to see that. All of those things are the kind of excuses that we get. And you need to stop and say, Why don't I want to be on camera? Some of it is, as you know, if I'm trying to present information and out of the corner of my eye, I see four people all kind of answering emails and visibly checking notes.

00:02:56:21 - 00:03:30:11
Wayne Turmel
Well, there are two sides to that coin. The one coin, the one side is, yeah, it's this whole thing is mostly going to be me talking, and it doesn't add a lot of value because most people are going to be passively listening. So do I need to see that? The other side of that, of course, is if you can't be trusted to pay attention and focus when the camera's on, you, what makes you think I am going to trust that you are paying attention when I can't?

00:03:30:13 - 00:03:49:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. To your point, like I have heard about, I don't agree with this, but I have heard about people who, when it is, you know, a town hall type meeting and maybe it's something where they don't have to have cameras on or whatever. They're posting pictures on LinkedIn of, oh, look at me cooking dinner while I'm listening to this town hall or something like that feels weird to me.

00:03:49:09 - 00:03:52:12
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm sorry. And that might be an unpopular opinion.

00:03:52:14 - 00:04:23:05
Wayne Turmel
Well, it gets back to something we spoke about a week or two ago on this very podcast, which what is your responsibility when you are allowed to work from home? You are being asked to do certain things and certain things are inside your bailiwick. I have a kind of rule that if I wouldn't do it in the conference room with everybody there, why would I do it?

00:04:23:07 - 00:04:24:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely.

00:04:24:07 - 00:04:47:14
Wayne Turmel
When I'm working from home, do I you know, if I'm in the conference room, do I check my phone more than I should? Sure. I do. But I'm also there and I'm, you know, at least paying some attention to the person who's speaking. If you are turning off your camera because you don't want to get busted doing something, why are you doing something you don't want to get busted for?

00:04:47:14 - 00:04:49:08
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Like, use your head.

00:04:49:12 - 00:05:04:04
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. I mean, one quick. Oh, somebody sends a teams message and you respond real quick. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about that. What they care about is if you are very obvious, as, like, not paying any attention.

00:05:04:06 - 00:05:04:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:05:04:20 - 00:05:28:09
Wayne Turmel
So this becomes does the camera need to be on for all of this? Right. Is the question. Well, I think that again, where does it add value? Where it adds value is seeing people reading their body language. So on team meetings, for example. I'm a big fan of everybody has their camera on at the beginning, everybody says hello.

00:05:28:14 - 00:05:52:14
Wayne Turmel
Everybody greets everybody. And then as the meeting goes on, you know, if you need to eat, if you have something going on, right, then there's no need to be on camera because it's stressful being on camera for an hour and worrying about where do I put my hands and oh, look, I'm paying attention, but I need to look like I'm paying.

00:05:52:14 - 00:05:58:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Attention, right? Or like I really am writing notes about whatever this is, but I don't want to look like I'm not paying attention. Yeah.

00:05:58:17 - 00:06:25:03
Wayne Turmel
God forbid. I'm actually looking up and referring to something that we're talking about, right? I mean, you are a machine. When we are on meetings, if we just average the dual screens, everybody needs a Marisa anyway in their life. But, you know, if we're talking about something. And so when was that meeting that we had 30 seconds later up in the chat, Marisa will have the answer to that.

00:06:25:04 - 00:06:31:18
Wayne Turmel
She's quite wonderful about that. But if the camera was on her all the time, you see a lot of her looking off.

00:06:31:19 - 00:06:32:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Oh, yeah.

00:06:32:06 - 00:06:33:00
Wayne Turmel
So I do it.

00:06:33:02 - 00:06:39:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Because, you know, I've got a screen here, but I have a screen here too, which is usually where I've got whatever I'm looking up.

00:06:39:06 - 00:07:02:11
Wayne Turmel
Right. But if I'm paranoid about whether or not whereas is paying attention, that could be sending the wrong message. Mm hmm. Some of this is what is the responsibility of the audience? The responsibility of the audience is to pay attention, to contribute to the work to do. You need to be on camera all the time. No, you don't.

00:07:02:13 - 00:07:12:08
Wayne Turmel
And if you constantly refuse to be on camera, if this becomes a thing at some point, why?

00:07:12:10 - 00:07:13:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:07:13:08 - 00:07:22:03
Wayne Turmel
Why don't you want to be on camera? Why don't you want to help your teammates connect with you? Well, I don't want to.

00:07:22:05 - 00:07:23:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Is not a good enough reason.

00:07:23:16 - 00:07:25:08
Wayne Turmel
It's not a great reason.

00:07:25:09 - 00:07:28:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Stop being a baby and turn camera on.

00:07:28:12 - 00:07:54:06
Wayne Turmel
Now, again, do you need to do it all the time? No. This should be something that is discussed and agreed. If you are doing a brainstorming meeting where it's really important that people see each other and make sure that we understand what the other person is saying. My rule generally is the bigger the audience, the less important it is that the passive audience members be on camera.

00:07:54:08 - 00:08:10:14
Wayne Turmel
The smaller the group. And this goes back to the richness of the communication, the smaller the group, the more active the discussion, the more we need to collaborate and cooperate, the more I want to see who I'm working with.

00:08:10:16 - 00:08:29:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. Well, and we talked about this off off this recording, but it was this idea of, you know, well, I don't want people looking at me. I don't want my boss to see me, even if it's on a one on one. And it was like, do you walk into a conference room with a bag on your head? Because if you don't, the what are we talking and.

00:08:29:11 - 00:08:42:05
Wayne Turmel
And it also is part of your responsibility as a worker. I mean, the most common thing is, well, I'm not really dressed to be on camera. You knew there was a meeting today. And if you help.

00:08:42:05 - 00:08:45:08
Marisa Eikenberry
Out to one. Okay. But like.

00:08:45:10 - 00:09:03:07
Wayne Turmel
If the boss says, I need to talk to you for a second and you say, well, I'm not really camera ready. And she says, I don't care. I just need to talk to you for 2 seconds. That's a different conversation. But if, you know, there is a meeting at 10:00 in the morning and you're still in your pajamas.

00:09:03:12 - 00:09:06:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Get a pajamas, you're going to be done.

00:09:06:08 - 00:09:08:01
Wayne Turmel
I'm going to get judgy.

00:09:08:03 - 00:09:09:10
Marisa Eikenberry
But do it.

00:09:09:12 - 00:09:29:22
Wayne Turmel
Particularly if there are people in the office who have had to shower and dress and commute and do all the rest of that stuff. And again, you only need to be dressed from the belly button up. How lazy are you that you can't put on a shirt with buttons when you know there's a meeting?

00:09:30:00 - 00:09:51:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Well, and in the interest of time, I'm going to pivot a little bit to our next question, but it's related to what we're talking about. So Mike McBride from LinkedIn says, you know, it's not necessary to have a screen full of people who are clearly reading and responding to email while others are presenting information. Just record the presentation and ask for written feedback so we can all go back to working.

00:09:51:19 - 00:09:57:04
Marisa Eikenberry
So yeah, I mean, we've talked about this secret as before. Yeah. This actually video.

00:09:57:06 - 00:10:22:00
Wayne Turmel
When you told me that this question was coming, I actually got jazzed because it's a conversation that we haven't had on this podcast and is worthy of discussion. Mm hmm. So I'm going to kind of take this in a couple of parts. You know, a bunch of people are paying attention. The message obviously isn't that riveting. They're probably making announcement of some kind.

00:10:22:02 - 00:10:25:02
Wayne Turmel
Does that need to be a meeting, period?

00:10:25:04 - 00:10:26:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. And that's a good question.

00:10:27:04 - 00:10:33:23
Wayne Turmel
And these are the same people, though, who say things like, I just survived another meeting. That could have been an email.

00:10:34:01 - 00:10:34:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:10:34:16 - 00:10:50:17
Wayne Turmel
And when we talk to the managers and say everybody says this could have been an email, why did you hold a meeting? And their answer, in all seriousness and with tears in their eyes, is because nobody reads the damn email.

00:10:50:19 - 00:11:14:18
Marisa Eikenberry
I was on a meeting once, thankfully not for this company, but I was on a meeting once where they set a Google document that they wanted everybody to read, and because they could not confirm that people were going to read the document, they had a meeting where they literally verbatim read the document. Now, granted, I want to take forks and poke my eyes out, but I understood why they did that.

00:11:14:20 - 00:11:47:06
Wayne Turmel
Right. So, again, do we need a meeting to make this particular announcement? Possibly not. But what was really interesting at the end of Mike's comment is, can you just record it, send it, and ask everybody to acknowledge that they've seen it? Well, we know that that's no guarantee that anybody has actually read or understood. And it does, though, raise the specter of we're really big on asynchronous communication.

00:11:47:08 - 00:12:00:17
Wayne Turmel
Right. Send chat messages. People don't need to respond to written things right away. You can communicate this. We can contribute to meetings. You can do things. What we haven't talked about is asynchronous video.

00:12:00:20 - 00:12:03:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Which has been such a big topic lately.

00:12:03:08 - 00:12:26:21
Wayne Turmel
Well, it's funny. It's a big topic now. I remember ten years ago people telling me that video email was going to be the wave of the future that you would push a button and the camera would come on and you could say, Hey, Marisa, I need you to do this, this and this today. You know, if you have any questions, give me a call.

00:12:26:22 - 00:12:53:02
Wayne Turmel
Click set. And it was clunky and it was huge and it never really caught on because it's time consuming, right, to do that kind of stuff. But now that we work in a hybrid world, now that the bandwidth and things aren't nearly the problem that they used to be, and the fact that everybody has cameras on their phone and you don't need a great setup to do that.

00:12:53:04 - 00:13:23:14
Wayne Turmel
Is there value in making a richer form of communication than another email? I know one organization where every morning the manager records a12 minute video. Hey, good morning. I'm out of the office today. Here's what you need to know. If you need to get to know me. You can reach me here. And by the way, don't forget, we have a meeting on Friday, and I need everybody to read that thing.

00:13:23:17 - 00:13:24:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay, Fair.

00:13:24:14 - 00:13:51:21
Wayne Turmel
And it's very short, but she sends that out every morning. And, yeah, you can do read receipts and you can see if it's been clicked on. You can see who read it, and you can do all of that, you know, semi fascist documentation stuff. But if you develop a rhythm and if people demonstrate that they do in fact treat these messages seriously and do take the required action.

00:13:51:23 - 00:13:52:19
Marisa Eikenberry
Mm hmm.

00:13:52:21 - 00:13:59:11
Wayne Turmel
It's not a bad idea. It's something to think about. Slack, for example, could not be easier.

00:13:59:13 - 00:14:10:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. They even add captions to the video or transcripts To the video. I don't remember when they did that, but like, there's another accessibility point that isn't there in a regular meeting usually.

00:14:10:09 - 00:14:40:16
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. I mean, I'm not walking around with subtitles of clearing, of course, on my shirt, although Lord knows, I probably should. So we have these forms of communication. People are becoming more and more comfortable. Certainly generationally, people face time and do all kinds of things video wise. Tik Tok. So it's actually asynchronous video is something worth exploring, you know, even if it's a monday morning.

00:14:40:16 - 00:15:09:14
Wayne Turmel
Hi, it's Monday. Here we go, team. How are you? Right. Or if you want to send a quick message to your boss. Right. Hey, I've got a question. Can we do this? You know, it's just. But it needs to be short and it needs to be easily accessed, which means it needs to be a link in teams or Slack, something that no matter what their device on, they can click it and watch it.

00:15:09:16 - 00:15:13:19
Wayne Turmel
The more hassle it is, the less valuable it's going to be.

00:15:13:21 - 00:15:30:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, I was going to add on to this, too, because, I mean, you know, we were talking about video and this idea of like some people, like I don't want to be on camera or whatever, which we've already set our pieces on that. But I do know that some of these platforms also allow audio clips, too. So maybe whatever you're talking about, you don't need it to be a video.

00:15:30:21 - 00:15:43:07
Marisa Eikenberry
To your point, you know, Hey, I got a real quick thing for my boss, but it's way easier to explain it than it is to type it out here. I'll just send an audio clip really quick and then you don't even have to mess with the video part at all if you didn't want to.

00:15:43:10 - 00:16:08:02
Wayne Turmel
The problem with that, of course, is that we have an entire generation of these darn kids with their rock and roll and their Foo Fighters who don't listen to voice mail, which again, there is no excuse for that. It is a tool. It is an expectation of the job you don't like. It is not a legitimate excuse.

00:16:08:04 - 00:16:16:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay. But as the one of the kids with the rock and roll, if I'm not listening to voice mail, wouldn't I also not turn on a video too?

00:16:16:19 - 00:16:26:16
Wayne Turmel
Which is where Mike's point about accountable and he comes in. Right. If you don't want meetings that don't have to be meetings.

00:16:26:18 - 00:16:27:11
Marisa Eikenberry
Mm hmm.

00:16:27:13 - 00:16:42:04
Wayne Turmel
If you say I'm not an idiot, just tell me what you want and I'll do it. Then you'd better do it. Because if you don't, we are going back to entire meetings where I read the memo to everybody.

00:16:42:06 - 00:17:05:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, and I can't help but come back to this idea, too. And I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the idea of a here. I'll watch the video on my own time or listen to the audio clip in my own time. Like, I get all that. But regardless, the time is spent. Either way, if it's a 20 minute meeting or a 20 minute video that you watch asynchronously later, it's still 20 minutes that you have now spent.

00:17:05:07 - 00:17:26:17
Marisa Eikenberry
So it's like, is it better if it's already scheduled and you're, quote unquote, forced to do it rather than, okay, yeah, I'm going to try to make time in my schedule to watch this 20 minute video at some point, which I think sometimes might also be why some of these videos and audios and things like that don't get watched or listened to.

00:17:26:19 - 00:17:53:10
Wayne Turmel
They don't watch videos, but they don't read the email and they don't pay attention in the meeting. I mean, if you are blithely ignoring communication that's on you at some point, that's a performance management issue, right? If your boss is sending emails of your teammates or sending out emails and you start every meeting with, I didn't see that right.

00:17:53:14 - 00:17:55:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, how do you expect your job to.

00:17:55:19 - 00:18:04:11
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, that's a performance management issue. At that point you are not taking your responsibility. The rest of the world can only do so much.

00:18:04:17 - 00:18:06:23
Marisa Eikenberry
We can give you all the tools.

00:18:07:01 - 00:18:21:04
Wayne Turmel
We have all the tools at our disposal. There is no excuse for not getting a message anymore except time and attention. And that is on you. And that's end of the lesson.

00:18:21:06 - 00:18:25:18
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes, we could wax poetic about this for ever, but.

00:18:25:20 - 00:18:27:21
Wayne Turmel
Whatever it is that we're waxing.

00:18:27:23 - 00:18:47:01
Marisa Eikenberry
You know. Yes. So, anyway, I do want to thank Brianne and Mike for sending in their pet peeves for meetings. And we have a few more that we're going to go into. And I'm so excited to get to those as well. But, Wayne, thank you so much for talking to us about these two very important topics and listeners.

00:18:47:01 - 00:19:02:14
Marisa Eikenberry
I hope that you got a ton out of it and thank you for listening to the long distance work life for shownotes transcripts and other resources. Make sure to visit us at long distance work life dot com. If you haven't yet, subscribe to the show so you don't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, be sure to like and review.

00:19:02:16 - 00:19:14:16
Marisa Eikenberry
This helps us know what you love about our show. Feel free to contact us via email or LinkedIn with the links in our shownotes. And let us know you listen to this episode or even suggest a topic or pet peeve for Wayne and I to tackle in a future episode.

00:19:14:16 - 00:19:28:13
Wayne Turmel
And if you haven't figured it out by now, Marisa actually pays really close attention to that stuff. We are digging what we're hearing from you. So questions, pet peeves, vicious personal attacks. Bring it.

00:19:28:15 - 00:19:45:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes. Follow me on all the social media. I yes, I will bring you all the stuff you like to learn more about Remote teams, order Wayne and Kevin Eikenberry's new book, The Long Distance Team. You can learn more about the book at Long Distance Team Book Dotcom. Thanks for joining us. And as Wayne likes to say, don't let the weasels get you down.

00:00:07:23 - 00:00:12:08
Marisa Eikenberry
Welcome back to Long-Distance Worklife where we help you lead, work and thrive in remote and hybrid teams.

00:00:12:10 - 00:00:18:12
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm Marisa Eikenberry, a fellow remote worker. And joining me is my co-host and remote work expert Wayne Turmel. Hi, Wayne!

00:00:18:13 - 00:00:20:13
Wayne Turmel
Hello, Marisa. How are you?

00:00:20:14 - 00:00:23:15
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm great. Are you ready to tackle some more pet peeves today?

00:00:23:16 - 00:00:45:16
Wayne Turmel
I am. This is like my favorite thing is when I do training, I always tell people, don't be shy. This is your chance to vent. And just a little word about pet peeves in general. When we get them from readers, it very often starts with Maybe it's just me, and the answer is no. It is not just you.

00:00:45:16 - 00:00:46:17
Wayne Turmel
That's the point.

00:00:46:22 - 00:01:14:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes. So if you've been thinking about sending us one for a while, do it. Because not only is there, it's not just you. There's probably also even us that feel the same way. So we're going to start tackling those. I've got two lined up for you and we're going to start with Michael's. And Michael told me on LinkedIn that for him, his pet peeve is meeting canceled meetings, canceled the day of and it's worse if it's an early meeting or the closer the cancellation is to the starting meeting time.

00:01:14:20 - 00:01:17:17
Wayne Turmel
Yes, the answer is yes, right?

00:01:17:19 - 00:01:19:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I feel that, too.

00:01:19:09 - 00:01:30:09
Wayne Turmel
It's interesting because what Michael didn't say is the momentary feeling of relief. And hallelujah, right goes when a meeting is canceled.

00:01:30:14 - 00:01:34:12
Marisa Eikenberry
The introvert in me is like, Oh, thank God.

00:01:34:14 - 00:02:05:10
Wayne Turmel
What I suspect he's referring to is the sense that you have blocked out time on your calendar. And there is something presumably at least as important, likely, more important, that isn't getting done because you have blocked time for this meeting. There's prep time and then the meeting is simply and I think that there are a couple of things that need to go into this because what is it that peeves us off about that?

00:02:05:16 - 00:02:33:19
Wayne Turmel
It's seldom that the meeting is canceled, right? That's that in itself is often, oh, I get an hour of my life back or whatever. It's a couple of things. One is I've wasted all this time. Yeah, prepping or blocking it or not schedule ing something that I could be doing. So there's a productivity waste here. The second thing I think is it's just plain rude.

00:02:33:21 - 00:02:34:13
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:02:34:15 - 00:03:00:00
Wayne Turmel
Right, right. And depending on if you're crossing time zones and doing different things, it's an inconvenience. So I think there are some things. First of all, your mother probably raised you right. So if something is canceled, apologize, acknowledge the work that's gone into it and give a reason why it's canceled.

00:03:00:02 - 00:03:10:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Yeah. I mean, this week that got moved a couple of times and every time it was crap. I didn't know about this thing. Here's why I need to move it. Okay, No problem.

00:03:10:07 - 00:03:36:01
Wayne Turmel
Most people are reasonable human beings. People will be reasonable about this, assuming two conditions. One is that it is acknowledged and you you don't have to grovel or anything like that. But a simple. I'm really sorry. I know that you prep this. I know that you blocked the other time out. Here's why we had to change or cancel the meeting.

00:03:36:03 - 00:03:36:11
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah.

00:03:36:14 - 00:03:44:21
Wayne Turmel
Because frankly, there's very often a good reason for that. If you are canceling the meeting, they're jolly well, better be a good reason for this.

00:03:45:02 - 00:03:46:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:03:46:08 - 00:04:14:02
Wayne Turmel
And it has to do with a key stakeholder. Can't make it or we're missing certain information or the building caught fire or whatever it is When you cancel, do so with an explanation. As much explanation as you can give, because most people will go, Oh, that makes sense. So that's the first thing. The second thing is whatever business was supposed to be conducted in this meeting obviously did not take place.

00:04:14:04 - 00:04:33:14
Wayne Turmel
How are we going to handle that if it was important enough to hold a meeting? Obviously it's important. Are you going to send the information via an asynchronous form? Right. Are you going to send the PowerPoint or are you going to direct them to where they can get the information that would have been given out in the media?

00:04:33:16 - 00:04:48:14
Wayne Turmel
Right. So that people at least get the value of that. I think it's important that we know is this canceled or is it rescheduled? And approximately when will it be rescheduled? Tell us what the future holds.

00:04:48:16 - 00:04:50:19
Marisa Eikenberry
So we can block that time in our calendar and we.

00:04:50:19 - 00:05:17:01
Wayne Turmel
Can walk that unnecessarily. And I think that's and I know that that doesn't make up for the frustration, particularly, as I say, if you are readjusting your life, not just your your schedule, but your actual life. You know, when I have clients in Europe and I love my European clients very much, but I live on the west coast of the United States, there is no good time.

00:05:17:03 - 00:05:20:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, somebody is going to get inconvenienced either way.

00:05:20:07 - 00:05:42:22
Wayne Turmel
Somebody is going to be inconvenienced and the customer being the customer, it's probably me as it should be now, depending on the time of day, can be a big deal because if I need to be on webcam, for example, I need to be showered and dressed from the waist up and, you know, look reasonable, lay awake and be properly caffeinated.

00:05:43:00 - 00:05:46:16
Wayne Turmel
Well, if I have done that at five in the morning.

00:05:46:18 - 00:05:48:07
Marisa Eikenberry
And you've now canceled.

00:05:48:08 - 00:06:07:06
Wayne Turmel
And it's happened, I mean, I've gotten up at 415 for 5:00 meeting only to check my email and they've canceled meeting. Oof! Congratulations. It's 415 and you're awake and the coffee's on. Well, you know my day. I'm a serious head.

00:06:07:08 - 00:06:27:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I know. For me, like, because the. The nature of what I do, like, I do so much deep work, and there are some times where it's like, I won't plan my deep work. I project work during certain times. This well, I'm going to have a meeting at 10:00 or I'm going to have me, so I'll just do this later and then when it gets canceled, it's just like crap.

00:06:27:17 - 00:06:38:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Like, that was time. I mean, yeah, I theoretically have it back now, but it's like, but now I've scheduled other other stuff around it, so it doesn't really feel like I got that time back, even though I theoretically did.

00:06:38:17 - 00:07:11:16
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. And what you said is really important because you're not just losing the time of the meeting. I'm the same way. If I know, for example, we're recording this today and that's on my my schedule. Well, for the last half hour, I've been doing little things right, right. Deleting stuff from my inbox and, you know, updating some things, but little mindless tasks because I want my head in the game to do this and I don't want to get into something that requires deep thought and then have to stop.

00:07:11:17 - 00:07:14:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. That's that's where I'm at. Right?

00:07:14:12 - 00:07:29:11
Wayne Turmel
Exactly. So what happens is we not just lose call it an hour because that's an easy. Yeah. Framework we know lose that hour we probably misspent a half hour at least.

00:07:29:12 - 00:07:32:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Maybe depending on when the last thing that we got done. Got that.

00:07:32:23 - 00:07:41:11
Wayne Turmel
Exactly. Oh, I got off my call at 930 and the meeting is at ten. I'm not going to jump in and do something major.

00:07:41:12 - 00:07:55:04
Marisa Eikenberry
Oh, yeah. Like I've gotten off meetings. I mean, I end my day like 345. And so there are times that, you know, I'll get done with whatever task that I'm doing it like 330. And I go, Well, what am I to do for 15 minutes? I'm to be honest, I probably go on Facebook because it's like, what am I going to get done in 15 minutes?

00:07:55:06 - 00:07:56:08
Marisa Eikenberry
Not a whole heck of a lot.

00:07:56:08 - 00:08:27:18
Wayne Turmel
And so and here's the thing, though, you do that, nobody cares. The work got done. And this is the thing about remote work. The work the product for the day got done. The fact that you're 15 minutes late, early coming in, leaving, running to target, whatever you're doing is not as important as the fact that the work product, you got an acceptable amount of work product done for the day.

00:08:27:20 - 00:08:34:03
Wayne Turmel
The problem with canceled meetings is that you could have gotten more work product done right now.

00:08:34:03 - 00:08:39:00
Marisa Eikenberry
You know, now those projects have been scheduled on other days because I thought I didn't have it in my calendar today.

00:08:39:01 - 00:09:15:17
Wayne Turmel
Exactly right. So I know, Michael, that this does not assuage the pain. Right. Because it is annoying. But I think if we apologize and recognize the inconvenience, give people some sense of what's next. Right. Are we going to reschedule it for Thursday? Are we going to send out the materials in advance? Tell us what's going to happen as a result of this so that whatever work we were supposed to get done still gets done because the meeting was supposed to accomplish work.

00:09:15:19 - 00:09:25:23
Wayne Turmel
Right. Give people a sense of what's next so that they can plan their life. I think, you know, stuff happens.

00:09:26:01 - 00:09:26:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Of course.

00:09:26:17 - 00:09:33:12
Wayne Turmel
And most people recognize that. But, you know, we can take the sting out of it a little bit.

00:09:33:14 - 00:09:51:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, and I think, too, because I have also heard this where, you know, you have a meeting that, well, maybe it might happen, but maybe it won't happen. But it's not like we're canceling it because, you know, that was caught on fire or something like that. It's just like, I don't know if I'm going to have it or not cancel it like earlier rather than later if the day before.

00:09:51:07 - 00:09:54:09
Marisa Eikenberry
You're like, I don't know if we need to have it, cancel it.

00:09:54:10 - 00:10:00:11
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. I think periodically, you know, asking yourself, do we need to have this meeting at all?

00:10:00:17 - 00:10:02:03
Marisa Eikenberry
And that's an important question to ask.

00:10:02:08 - 00:10:13:01
Wayne Turmel
And can it be done in another fashion? If everybody comes in to the office Tuesdays and Wednesdays, maybe we'll just do a Wednesday when everybody's here.

00:10:13:03 - 00:10:18:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Or I don't really need a status update because we technically talked the other day like we can just cancel this meeting.

00:10:18:16 - 00:10:25:12
Wayne Turmel
And if you have a decent reporting system, status updates are largely unnecessary.

00:10:25:14 - 00:10:27:22
Marisa Eikenberry
That too.

00:10:28:00 - 00:10:29:00
Wayne Turmel
What's your next question?

00:10:29:04 - 00:10:33:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. So our next one is from Lourdes. I'm hope I'm pronouncing that right.

00:10:33:12 - 00:10:34:15
Wayne Turmel
Gorgeous.

00:10:34:17 - 00:10:55:04
Marisa Eikenberry
Thank you. And it says, if you're collaborating across time zones, global or country specific organizing meetings or expecting response, is it convenient times where headquarters are based with little regard of how late or early in the day it might be for other remote locations? Slack and Outlook have a send delay option for a good reason and she added a very nice little emoji.

00:10:55:04 - 00:11:11:11
Marisa Eikenberry
I did ask for a little bit more detail and I go, okay, what's the worst that you've ever seen for this? Like, what does that look like for you? And she said, the worst times that she's ever seen were 5 a.m. for a meeting or between 9 p.m. and midnight for time zones outside of headquarters.

00:11:11:13 - 00:11:19:06
Wayne Turmel
People who live in headquarters forget what they learned about eighth grade physics.

00:11:19:07 - 00:11:20:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay?

00:11:20:05 - 00:11:27:12
Wayne Turmel
And they don't realize that the sun does not revolve around their particular building.

00:11:27:14 - 00:11:28:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes.

00:11:28:23 - 00:11:33:11
Wayne Turmel
People on the east coast of the United States are particularly bad at this.

00:11:33:13 - 00:11:36:07
Marisa Eikenberry
I mean, we are particularly bad at this even as an organization.

00:11:36:10 - 00:11:38:17
Wayne Turmel
Well, but we're not. We're not. Here's the thing.

00:11:38:22 - 00:11:39:13
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay.

00:11:39:15 - 00:11:44:21
Wayne Turmel
Indianapolis is on. Indy is in Indiana, which is in the Eastern.

00:11:44:21 - 00:11:45:08
Marisa Eikenberry
Time.

00:11:45:08 - 00:12:12:00
Wayne Turmel
Zone. We have trucks in the Mountain Time zone, Arizona. Nobody knows what time it is in Arizona ever because of gas and switching. Right. And I'm on the West Coast. I'm an early bird when Kevin's schedule's like our team meetings first Friday of every month. It's 7:00 in the morning for me. But that was negotiated fair, right? That is the latest that I usually start my day.

00:12:12:04 - 00:12:19:01
Wayne Turmel
So, you know, I'll often have a t shirt and a baseball cap on because I won't have showered, but everybody knows me and that doesn't matter.

00:12:19:04 - 00:12:20:14
Marisa Eikenberry
And it's a TV call in.

00:12:20:14 - 00:12:22:12
Wayne Turmel
The morning doesn't bother me.

00:12:22:15 - 00:12:22:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah.

00:12:23:04 - 00:12:58:02
Wayne Turmel
Now, as I say, if I'm talking to somebody in London. Right, that's a different that's a different animal. Or if you're talking to somebody in Asia-Pacific, that can get complicated. But the default very often is whatever time the headquarters is in, everybody synchronizes their clocks accordingly. And that shouldn't be necessarily the norm unless it's absolutely mandatory. You know, if you've got a call center in Manila, yeah, it probably used to be when your customers in the U.S. are awake.

00:12:58:04 - 00:12:59:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:12:59:03 - 00:13:19:21
Wayne Turmel
Right. There are some things that just make sense in terms of workflow. But there are two things I think. One is look for peak times, right? Hey, if I have to stay an hour later than usual to do a call, and that's not all the time. Yeah, I'll take one for the team. It's not a big deal.

00:13:19:23 - 00:13:21:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, once in a while it's.

00:13:21:00 - 00:13:41:07
Wayne Turmel
Fine if you feel like you are constantly being imposed upon and unnecessarily so, that can lead to disengagement and disgruntlement and all of that kind of negative stuff because it just feels like your needs are secondary to everybody else's.

00:13:41:13 - 00:14:01:19
Marisa Eikenberry
So when this happens, I mean, who needs to be the one to raise the flag? Is it the person who's being super inconvenienced needs to go talk to their manager, or does the leader need to realize, Hey, I might be in New York, but my team is in Spain and I'm asking them to be on a call at a time that's not great for them.

00:14:02:01 - 00:14:18:11
Wayne Turmel
Well, and that's the thing, right? I know that for me, when I led a team and it was an international team, I tended to take one for the team. Unless the majority of the people on the call were in a single time.

00:14:18:11 - 00:14:20:05
Marisa Eikenberry
So that makes sense to try to get as.

00:14:20:05 - 00:14:45:09
Wayne Turmel
Many of the person. If it's just me in that person, I will generally take one for the team and do it when it's convenient for them. That is one of those dark side of servant leadership things that we've talked about though, where if you've got five team members outside of your time zone and so you're starting at five in the morning and finishing at eight at night, that ain't good.

00:14:45:11 - 00:14:47:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, you need to take care of you too.

00:14:47:11 - 00:15:17:18
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. So everybody needs to communicate that. I think one of the things that is very helpful besides just asking people, when would you like to hold this meeting so that it's not killing you? That would be good, right? Just ask people what works Every once in a while, though. Toss them a bone. You know, maybe people in the New York office need to suck it up and, you know, take a morning call or stay a little bit later.

00:15:17:23 - 00:15:41:00
Wayne Turmel
And the thing is, the way that we work now, it's not like if I have an 8:00 call, I have to work every minute up till 8:00. We live in a time flexible world. If you're you know, if you work till 2:00 and you've got a call at 8:00 at night, go to the gym, have dinner with the family circle back and join when you when you need to.

00:15:41:02 - 00:16:06:16
Wayne Turmel
I think what Lord is, is addressing is this kind of home office bias, which literally leads to thoughtless behavior and thoughtless, not in the sense of you're a miserable, horrible human being. It's that you literally didn't think about it. So when you have people in different time zones confer with them, find out what works, Do they like early morning?

00:16:06:19 - 00:16:11:10
Wayne Turmel
Do they like evening? How does this impact their workday?

00:16:11:12 - 00:16:21:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Well, and to your point, even just from the last question, does it need to be a meeting at all? Could this be done asynchronously, which would probably benefit all of them?

00:16:21:17 - 00:16:32:23
Wayne Turmel
And we're living in a world where literally with the push of a button, you are recording transcripts, ing and translating your meetings.

00:16:33:01 - 00:16:33:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Right?

00:16:34:01 - 00:16:44:02
Wayne Turmel
So if it's an informational meeting where you're basically giving information, maybe somebody doesn't have to be up at midnight.

00:16:44:04 - 00:16:44:20
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, maybe.

00:16:44:20 - 00:16:45:09
Wayne Turmel
That be that.

00:16:45:11 - 00:17:02:06
Marisa Eikenberry
A meeting, it could be a video. If if it's truly just I'm going to give information and then people can ask questions. I've seen people use loom or other software to just record a video and then send it out and then, hey, watch this video. If you have questions, let me know.

00:17:02:08 - 00:17:15:12
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. So there are ways to do this. Technology allows us to do that, but have conversations with people. What works, what doesn't? Do they mind? You know, what is their body clock tell you?

00:17:15:14 - 00:17:16:02
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:17:16:02 - 00:17:37:20
Wayne Turmel
Somebody to attend those things. You should know that anyway if you're hiring people outside of your time's up. So you know, what is their preference? Can they be accommodated or are there alternatives to those meetings? And by the way, every once in a while toss them a bone and schedule when it's good for them and everybody else has to suck it up.

00:17:37:20 - 00:17:42:04
Wayne Turmel
And when they complain, you go, yes, that's the point.

00:17:42:06 - 00:17:51:02
Marisa Eikenberry
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So it's always, always been, you know, missing dinner for this. You can miss dinner once a while.

00:17:51:04 - 00:17:52:19
Wayne Turmel
Exactly. Yeah.

00:17:52:21 - 00:18:10:07
Marisa Eikenberry
So I just want to thank both of our listeners for sending in these questions. I'm so excited that we got to tackle these today and we have a few more, but we would love to answer your questions too, so please make sure to send those to us. Thank you for listening to Log. This is work life for Shownotes transcripts and other resources.

00:18:10:07 - 00:18:31:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Make sure to visit longdistanceworklife.com if you haven't yet. Subscribe to the podcast so you won't miss any future episodes while you're there. Be sure to like in review. This helps us know what you love about our show. Feel free to contact us via email or LinkedIn with the links in our Shownotes let us know you listen to this episode or even suggest a topic or pet peeve for Wayne and I to tackle on a future episode.

00:18:32:01 - 00:18:44:15
Marisa Eikenberry
And if you'd like to learn more about remote teams, order Wayne and Kevin Eikenberry’s new book, The Long-Distance Team, you can learn more about the book at Long Distance Team Book.com. Thanks for joining us. It is Wayne. Like say don't let the weasels get you down.

00:18:44:17 - 00:18:48:14
Wayne Turmel
Darn weasels.

00:00:07:22 - 00:00:18:22
Marisa Eikenberry
Welcome back to Long-Distance Worklife where we help you lead, work, and thrive on remote and hybrid teams. I'm Marisa Eikenberry, fellow remote worker, and joining me is my co-host and remote work expert Wayne Turmel. Hi, Wayne.

00:00:19:00 - 00:00:23:20
Wayne Turmel
And it is indeed a lovely day. Hi, Marisa.

00:00:23:21 - 00:00:32:23
Marisa Eikenberry
So today we're going back into even more pet peeves. We still have a bunch that you guys have sent us. And please keep sending us these.

00:00:33:01 - 00:00:37:07
Wayne Turmel
Can I tell you how much I enjoy hearing what makes people crazy?

00:00:37:09 - 00:00:38:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Right?

00:00:38:12 - 00:00:44:03
Wayne Turmel
It just gives me such joy because there's a part of it that goes. It's not just me.

00:00:44:05 - 00:01:06:04
Marisa Eikenberry
100%. 100%. So we're going to talk about those today. And the first one that I want to start with we actually got from LinkedIn, from Maya Middlemiss, who said taking a video meeting in an unsuitable environment because look at me and my work from anywhere lifestyle. Meanwhile, terrible background noise or they're making you seasick while apparently on a trampoline.

00:01:06:06 - 00:01:13:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Respect the rest of the room. Pay attention to the AV hygiene and UX of the whole call. So Wayne, does this bother you when people are.

00:01:13:07 - 00:01:15:19
Wayne Turmel
AV hygiene and UX oh my!

00:01:15:19 - 00:01:17:02
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:01:17:04 - 00:01:47:19
Wayne Turmel
Basically what she's saying is try not to be annoying. This is a problem. This is a problem that actually goes back to the invention of the cell phone. Okay. And here's what I mean by that. Those of us who are old enough to remember when we could take conference calls on cell phones for the first time, which means we weren't tied to this big clunky desk phone and we could walk around or take a call in the car.

00:01:48:01 - 00:01:54:13
Wayne Turmel
And more than one conference call had been interrupted by a flushing sound.

00:01:54:16 - 00:01:56:02
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I would think that.

00:01:56:03 - 00:02:05:05
Wayne Turmel
Various and sundry noises they told us perhaps the person on the line wasn't fully engaged with the call.

00:02:05:07 - 00:02:06:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes.

00:02:06:12 - 00:02:32:21
Wayne Turmel
So this is a problem that's been going on for a while. It certainly is an issue. And now the way Maya said that tells me that there are two parts to this. One is the actual functional thing of it's annoying. I have a class that I teach for a university, and more than once my co teacher has turned her video on and I am looking at her cats.

00:02:32:21 - 00:02:55:02
Wayne Turmel
But literally at her cats. But because the cat is walking across the keyboard and she just turns the camera on and I'm like, this is not the view I'm looking for, right? And it can be a little distracting. So some of it is is is there a level of professionalism here? Of course. Right. And respect for your peers.

00:02:55:07 - 00:03:23:16
Wayne Turmel
Some of it is also, hey, I slipped into the office. I'm wearing big boy clothes. I'm doing this. And you're you know, on the couch with your lap desk doing, you know, doing yoga while trying to take this call. It's just annoying. So there's a respect thing, to be sure. The AC hygiene thing is very real. Certainly, people have taken meetings while they're out of the office that, of course, happens.

00:03:23:19 - 00:03:31:09
Wayne Turmel
Does that necessarily then have to be a face time? Nobody wants to watch you bounce up and down on a walk. Right.

00:03:31:13 - 00:03:32:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes.

00:03:32:17 - 00:03:55:23
Wayne Turmel
And so there's just a and we don't do this enough as human beings, I might add, which is what is the impact of my behavior or my actions on the other person? Yes, I'm here. I'm responsive. I'm taking your call. I'm not in the office. But by golly, I will help you. Maybe that doesn't have to be a video call.

00:03:56:01 - 00:04:17:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I know. Like, for me personally, like, I get motion sick pretty easily. So when people are, like, walking their dog and they're on video call or I had one the other day, it wasn't too bad. But like, she was in the car, she was not driving. She was in the car and like on this. And it was like, you probably didn't have to have your video on at that point and probably shouldn't.

00:04:17:12 - 00:04:18:12
Wayne Turmel
Not for nothing.

00:04:18:13 - 00:04:29:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I mean, she was a passenger, but still like it was just for me. It was distracting. I couldn't pay attention to the other two people in the hall because she's constantly moving. Right. Right. And.

00:04:29:23 - 00:04:41:12
Wayne Turmel
You know, as we've said so many times, I am all about seeing somebody's face when the call starts. But once the call actually begins, what value are you adding?

00:04:41:14 - 00:04:43:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Yeah, it depends on what kind of.

00:04:43:01 - 00:05:00:23
Wayne Turmel
Perhaps detracting from everybody else's experience. So it's just, you know, give some thought to what is going on. I also have this conversation a lot with people who are at home so they don't use headsets.

00:05:01:03 - 00:05:03:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Oh, my God, drives me crazy.

00:05:03:07 - 00:05:26:22
Wayne Turmel
And there are beeps and bloops and there's noises even in an empty house. There's the dogs go crazy at the neighbors or, you know, somebody lets a leaf blower go insane or something is going on and you get an echo. It's you wear them partly so you can hear I mean, of course, you know, I want to be able to hear what's going on.

00:05:27:01 - 00:05:45:18
Wayne Turmel
But also you do that so that you are being respectful of the other people on the call. And it is a fair accusation that people who are not in an office environment sometimes become oblivious.

00:05:45:20 - 00:05:53:14
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes, we've talked about this before, too. Or you used to be in an office, but then you went home for three years and so now you forget what it's like.

00:05:53:16 - 00:06:02:03
Wayne Turmel
Well, in your reveling in your freedom and, you know, I won't even tell you what I have on my feet right now because it's irrelevant to this conversation.

00:06:02:05 - 00:06:03:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:06:03:03 - 00:06:07:01
Wayne Turmel
Right. I will tell you, it's not something I would wear in the office.

00:06:07:03 - 00:06:09:03
Marisa Eikenberry
And that's okay.

00:06:09:05 - 00:06:15:08
Wayne Turmel
But it's irrelevant to the conversation and it's not distracting, except now everybody's wondering what that is wearing.

00:06:15:10 - 00:06:16:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Obviously, it's funny slippers. It's fine.

00:06:16:23 - 00:06:18:09
Wayne Turmel
No, it's not funny slippers.

00:06:18:11 - 00:06:19:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Secret's safe with us.

00:06:19:12 - 00:06:50:09
Wayne Turmel
Really ugly mariachi sandals. But it's. It's Las Vegas in May. And, you know, I got to run around, take the dog out and do stuff, and it's easy, but it doesn't impact what people are seeing and hearing. So really, it's when you are going to take one of these calls, you need to stop and think what how do my actions impact my teammate?

00:06:50:15 - 00:07:06:03
Wayne Turmel
How do I add value to the meeting? How do I distract and be open to feedback, something that you think might not be a big deal might really bother somebody. I am not a big fan of cats, but.

00:07:06:05 - 00:07:09:11
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm not sure that many people are.

00:07:09:13 - 00:07:20:17
Wayne Turmel
There are people who don't care. We've talked before about people's unnatural affection for their animals on video calls. The assumption that everybody finds it as adorable as they do.

00:07:20:19 - 00:07:24:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Without realizing it's distracted and really not professional in the moment.

00:07:24:03 - 00:07:26:06
Wayne Turmel
And really not professional. Exactly.

00:07:26:09 - 00:07:50:14
Marisa Eikenberry
So. Well, and with that, too, I would also like because, like, you know, we keep talking about video a lot also, but like, you know, there's a background noise thing, too. If you're somewhere that like there's a lot of, you know, you're in a car and the windows open. Well, first of all, if you can maybe put up the window, but like I know we've been on calls before where we've had to tell somebody to mute because we can hear the window and we can't hear anyone else.

00:07:50:16 - 00:08:12:18
Wayne Turmel
Well, I'm a full disclosure. I do not keep my phone live. You know, I don't get rings and announcements. Yeah, but I do have it on Buzz. And there have been times when we've been on calls, there have been times when we've been recording this podcast where my phone goes off and I can ignore it. It's buzzing, it's in the background.

00:08:12:22 - 00:08:23:22
Wayne Turmel
It doesn't bother me what might bother somebody else. Right? Right. Okay. Wayne needs to be better about that. It's just respect and like being a good person and stuff.

00:08:24:03 - 00:08:27:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Amazing, right? The simple things.

00:08:28:01 - 00:08:36:19
Wayne Turmel
The fact that we have to talk to you people about this. Were you raised by wolves? What?

00:08:36:21 - 00:09:00:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Tell us in the comments. But moving on from this, I want to go to Mallory Glassner who said people who constantly watch and or talk about their teammates status colors. Now, I remember when I saw this comment on the post slide put and I was like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. What do people do this? What is this? Is this really a thing?

00:09:00:07 - 00:09:22:07
Marisa Eikenberry
And she responded, Oh, yes, it's a thing. So much so that someone actually invented a dongle that makes you stay green. Now, we've actually kind of talked about this concept of always looking like you're online in a previous episode where, you know, I saw somebody put peanut butter on their mouse so that way their dog would look like the mouse.

00:09:22:07 - 00:09:29:21
Marisa Eikenberry
So that would look like you're on line. Like, I don't understand this obsession with weather. Okay, well, fine.

00:09:29:23 - 00:09:57:05
Wayne Turmel
There are two parts to this. Yes. I suspect this is me trying not to just freak out at human behavior. I always assume that even the worst behavior happens for a reason that is logical to the person doing it. Okay, so there are two parts to this. First of all, as the person who's being looked at, am I being responsible with my status updates and things like that?

00:09:57:05 - 00:10:23:11
Wayne Turmel
And why does it matter? Well, it matters because people want to know that I hope it's less that you are working, but that you are available to answer questions or to be a resource or something like that. Is this person available? I have a question. Can I ask Marisa? And if I do ask Marisa, can I expect immediate answer or is it going to come later?

00:10:23:11 - 00:10:42:14
Wayne Turmel
Because she's obviously busy. You and I are situated. I don't have a problem sending you a question. If you say you're not being disturbed or you're not getting your your messages. Cool. I've asked my question. It's off my plate. It's out of my way. And she is a responsible person and she will answer me when she can.

00:10:42:16 - 00:11:03:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, and I can't speak for other platforms, but like, you know, sometimes even that that green icon is green icon or lack of it is deceiving. Right. Like, I think slack. If you haven't opened up Slack in 30 minutes, it will show you as offline. I might still be sitting at my computer. I just haven't opened up slack in 30 minutes because I've been on deep work with something.

00:11:03:07 - 00:11:28:11
Wayne Turmel
All right. So here's the thing. Part of it is, as the the person who's been am I being mature and grown up and responsible, like if I'm not going to be at my desk, do I tell people I'm not going to be? Of course. Very often I say I'm out of the office for an hour, but I have my phone with me or I'm out of the office and I cannot be reached until such and such a time.

00:11:28:13 - 00:11:40:14
Wayne Turmel
I'm being respectful of you, my teammates, so that you can do that and you're not waiting for something that's not going to happen. The flip side of her statement, though, is really interesting.

00:11:40:18 - 00:11:41:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes.

00:11:41:10 - 00:11:44:14
Wayne Turmel
Which is why do you care so much?

00:11:44:16 - 00:12:01:13
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, She actually gave us an example about at a previous organization. She used to hear people say all the time, so-and-so is always yellow and never working. Well, first of all, you don't know that there was another one. Well, so-and-so was green at 2 a.m. Well, if you know that so-and-so was green at 2 a.m. that means you were also looking at two.

00:12:01:13 - 00:12:05:11
Marisa Eikenberry
I am like not going to work life balance.

00:12:05:13 - 00:12:35:15
Wayne Turmel
Position here by yourself. Yes. Yeah, Absolute. And so what that says is there is a huge level of mistrust going on. Does that come from and we just talked about in the last episode, do I know what's going on or am I making assumptions? And if this is they continuing pattern, am I going to be a responsible adult and ask somebody about it?

00:12:35:17 - 00:12:43:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Well, in some cases it's none of your business. Like you're not a manager of that person and you know, like.

00:12:43:22 - 00:12:55:04
Wayne Turmel
You're not your business. It is your business in so far as good teammates offer feedback to each other, fair. And if this is becoming a thing.

00:12:55:06 - 00:12:55:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Mm hmm.

00:12:55:20 - 00:13:04:23
Wayne Turmel
I might say to you, you know, Marisa, you might want to log off. I do not always log off my computer. At the end of the day, I just don't.

00:13:05:01 - 00:13:05:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, which.

00:13:05:15 - 00:13:09:22
Wayne Turmel
Means, yeah, it could look like I'm online at two in the morning. I'm sure it does.

00:13:10:00 - 00:13:27:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. I was going to say, I don't always, since my desktop is both for work and for personal stuff, like, you know, I sometimes leave Slack open but it's still in do not disturb mode. So. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Thankfully, I've never gotten a message that was like, Why are you up at 10 p.m.? And I'm like, Because I'm actually playing the sentence.

00:13:27:23 - 00:13:36:16
Wayne Turmel
Exactly. You know, you know? So why are you so concerned about this? Other person's behavior becomes the question.

00:13:36:18 - 00:13:37:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Right?

00:13:37:07 - 00:13:52:16
Wayne Turmel
And if they are missing deadlines, if they are not responding, if they are not participating in meetings, if I am that person's manager, that becomes a performance management issue.

00:13:52:18 - 00:13:53:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Of course.

00:13:53:11 - 00:14:12:06
Wayne Turmel
They need to be coached as a team, have you had conversations about what is appropriate behavior and inappropriate behavior? When What does it mean when we see somebody is yellow? What does it mean when somebody is on? Do not disturb all day?

00:14:12:11 - 00:14:19:08
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Do they have a status saying that like they're in deep work mode or did they just put it in Do not disturb and you have no context at all.

00:14:19:10 - 00:14:40:03
Wayne Turmel
And did you put it on? Do not disturb and forget to turn it back on. I mean anything is possible, but that is the part of that that fascinates me is the people that are annoyed. Yes, that tells me more about the team dynamic than people forget to change their status.

00:14:40:05 - 00:14:58:20
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes. Because it doesn't sound like I mean, I might be wrong. And obviously, you know, I we don't have Mallory on right now to confirm or deny this, but it sounds like it's a little bit more of like peer to peer, you know, Oh, my God, Like so-and-so is on at two in the morning than it is like a manager saying, Wow, like you were on at two in the morning.

00:14:58:21 - 00:15:00:13
Marisa Eikenberry
Like, is everything okay?

00:15:00:15 - 00:15:05:16
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, no, this is peer to peer. This is, this is gossipy, mean girl behavior.

00:15:05:18 - 00:15:07:11
Marisa Eikenberry
100%.

00:15:07:13 - 00:15:16:23
Wayne Turmel
This is this is is now getting petty and silly and whatever. And now I don't know you. I'm not meaning to call you a mean girl.

00:15:17:01 - 00:15:24:03
Marisa Eikenberry
But she was reporting that this happened in a previous organization she used to work for. Not that she was the one asking.

00:15:24:03 - 00:15:31:09
Wayne Turmel
Okay. Okay. That's that's good, because otherwise, Mallory, we would have to chat.

00:15:31:11 - 00:15:46:04
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, anyway, we don't have time for any more of these today, but thank you so much for going through these too. And thank you to Mallory and Maya for sending these to us. I enjoy going through these months, a month. I don't know about you, Wade, but like, I.

00:15:46:09 - 00:16:05:14
Wayne Turmel
Love listening to people vent. It makes me so happy. So, yes, we want your pet peeves. Not just about meetings and webcams, but anything having to do with remote and hybrid work and just being better and saving our sanity and being less snarky with each other. I'm good with all of that.

00:16:05:16 - 00:16:26:19
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Well, and you know, and we've talked about this in previous episodes, that's like, you know, we work on a remote team. We've been working on a remote team for a long time. We teach people how to do this. And some of these pet peeves are also ones that we have too. So it's kind of fun to like see it from other perspectives and be like, Oh yes, this is not just this is not just an that's fine.

00:16:26:21 - 00:16:37:22
Wayne Turmel
You know, I realized a long time ago that one of the things that make me feel best in the world is when I realize it's not just me.

00:16:38:00 - 00:16:39:09
Marisa Eikenberry
100%.

00:16:39:15 - 00:16:47:23
Wayne Turmel
I am not the only one who feels this way. I am not the only one who gets frustrated with this. That actually makes me feel better.

00:16:48:01 - 00:16:52:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, isn't there like a whole thing about, like, you have a common enemy and, like, it creates this camaraderie?

00:16:52:23 - 00:16:57:15
Wayne Turmel
Well, we'll just. We'll just team up with Maya against whoever leaves their light on yellow.

00:16:57:15 - 00:17:07:18
Marisa Eikenberry
That's what that was. Mallory But yes, Maya will go after the people who are walking her dog. Weather video.

00:17:07:20 - 00:17:10:06
Wayne Turmel
All right, that's it. We're out of here.

00:17:10:08 - 00:17:29:04
Marisa Eikenberry
But listeners, thank you so much for listening to the longest work life for show notes, transcripts and other resources, Make sure to visit Long-Distance Work life dot com. If you haven't yet subscribe to the podcast, you almost any future episodes including pet peeve episodes just like this and while you're there be sure to like and review. This helps us know what you love about our show.

00:17:29:06 - 00:17:46:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Feel free to contact us by email or LinkedIn with the links in our show notes and let us know you listen to this episode or even suggest a topic for Wayne tonight to tack on a future episode, including these pet peeves. If you'd like to learn more about remote teams order Wayne and Kevin Barry's new book, The Long Distance Team, you can learn more about the book at LongDistanceTeamBook.com.

00:17:47:02 - 00:17:49:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Thanks for joining us. As Wayne likes to say don't let the weasels get you down.

00:00:07:21 - 00:00:18:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Welcome back to the Long-Distance Worklife where we help you lead, work and thrive in remote and hybrid teams. I'm Marisa Eikenberry, a fellow remote worker. And joining me is my co-host and remote work expert Wayne Turmel. How are you doing?

00:00:19:09 - 00:00:32:13
Wayne Turmel
I am well. I am- You know, we hear the word disgruntled, which by definition means that the word must be gruntled. If you are not if you are not disgruntled, you must be gruntled.

00:00:32:14 - 00:00:33:03
Marisa Eikenberry
So are you gruntled?

00:00:33:04 - 00:00:36:09
Wayne Turmel
I’m gruntled today, I am at one with the universe.

00:00:36:16 - 00:00:53:21
Marisa Eikenberry
I love that because we're actually going to be talking about things that tick people off today. Some of you may have listened to our past episode where we talked about pet peeves, and we've decided that that's going to be a series because so many of you set so many pet peeves that we really need to talk about. So we're going to continue with some of the ones that were sent to us.

00:00:54:08 - 00:01:09:03
Marisa Eikenberry
And I'm going to start off with @NikSoro on Twitter sent us one that says, it really makes him mad when people don't check your Slack status before you mess, before they message you. So I'm sure we both have thoughts on that.

00:01:10:04 - 00:01:11:23
Wayne Turmel
Well, I'm kind of curious.

00:01:13:03 - 00:01:13:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah.

00:01:13:10 - 00:01:15:08
Wayne Turmel
What what are your thoughts on that?

00:01:15:22 - 00:01:36:13
Marisa Eikenberry
So for me, I think it depends if, you know, like right now I have a Slack status up and I have my notifications turned off because we're podcasting right now. And so I want our team members to know, “Hey, I will get back to you in an hour.” Like, I just, you know, I don't mind if they're messaging me now because I have the notifications off.

00:01:36:13 - 00:02:01:00
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm not going to see them until it's time to see them. I don't even mind if people send me something that my do not disturb hours because it's very obvious that I'm in, do not disturb, and I will see them when I see them later. So maybe it's just me that isn't quite as bothered by this unless. Unless I have my lunch status on then sometime and maybe this is on me and I should actually shut my notifications off during lunch.

00:02:01:06 - 00:02:10:20
Marisa Eikenberry
But I do put up a lunch Slack status and there are times I get pinged ten or 12 times while it's sitting downstairs with my husband and I'm like, “Oh my God, I'm eating lunch!”

00:02:11:19 - 00:02:13:12
Wayne Turmel
You obviously don't have children.

00:02:14:00 - 00:02:15:04
Marisa Eikenberry
I mean, 100%.

00:02:15:04 - 00:02:40:11
Wayne Turmel
We have we have totally developed the ability to do what we're doing with people nattering at us in the background. What you said is really important, and that's why I wanted it to come from your mouth instead of mine, which is you have told them what the what the deal is. They are free to send messages and you will jolly well get to them when you get to them.

00:02:41:00 - 00:02:52:09
Wayne Turmel
You have the discipline and the ability. And by the way, you've taken the initiative to take your notifications off so you're not getting pinged and dinged and all of that stuff.

00:02:52:12 - 00:02:52:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:02:53:10 - 00:03:02:15
Wayne Turmel
All of us are smart enough to know that you are through working with you for any length of time. You are extremely quick to respond if you’re available.

00:03:03:06 - 00:03:03:19
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. As much as I can.

00:03:03:20 - 00:03:27:00
Wayne Turmel
If you are not available, you will respond as quickly as you can. And by the way, when you say I'm not getting notifications, you mean it. Now, does that mean I can't send you a message when you're not getting notifications? No. “Oh, I have a question for Marisa. I'll type the question and send it to her,” knowing that it is now in your inbox and you will get to it when you get to it.

00:03:27:04 - 00:03:33:02
Wayne Turmel
It's off my plate. I don't have to worry about remembering to send it to you later.

00:03:33:04 - 00:03:33:13
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:03:34:07 - 00:03:35:17
Wayne Turmel
Everybody's happy.

00:03:35:23 - 00:03:41:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. And I mean, we could we could talk about, you know, the scheduling feature on Slack, too, but. Well, we'll digress.

00:03:41:10 - 00:04:11:17
Wayne Turmel
That's the whole point. Whether it's Slack or Outlook or Teams or whatever you're using, there are tools that are available to do that. But there are two parts to the discussion. The first part is the person sending the message Are they respectful and intelligent enough to understand that the world doesn't revolve around them and that you intend to answer them and they will get an answer if you are not there and they need an answer.

00:04:12:01 - 00:04:15:06
Wayne Turmel
Maybe the answer is go find the answer from somebody else.

00:04:15:16 - 00:04:17:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Or pick up the phone, depending on what the Slack status says.

00:04:18:05 - 00:04:44:15
Wayne Turmel
Whatever the arrangement is. Right. But the person sending the message has to understand that all you can do is send the message to the other person that you can time it better. You can look at the status and go, okay, I shouldn't expect an answer in the next few minutes because she's busy. Take that off your plate. You've asked the question, go do something else.

00:04:44:20 - 00:05:00:06
Wayne Turmel
You're not sitting there drumming your fingers waiting for an answer. The second part of this equation, though, is the person dealing with the incoming messages. And we have talked about this before. We train people how to work with us.

00:05:00:14 - 00:05:04:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes, I had to learn the hard way. Yes.

00:05:04:07 - 00:05:28:21
Wayne Turmel
If you can't be bothered putting your out of office message, don't be surprised that people send you messages. Right. And because they see that you're there now, it takes them off that you're not responding. If you struggle with, okay, I'm going to be good. I've put my do not disturb on. I've left a status, says I'm busy for the next hour.

00:05:29:02 - 00:05:38:00
Wayne Turmel
But there's a lot of messages coming in. If you don't have the discipline to ignore that, then put on pause notifications.

00:05:38:23 - 00:05:55:05
Marisa Eikenberry
And that's part of the reason why I do that so much. And like I said, maybe I should be doing that at lunch because I know me and when my phone and my watch start digging, I start freaking out and maybe Nick is the same way that I am. And so, you know, it's like, hey, like I'm eating right now.

00:05:55:08 - 00:06:00:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Even though when you send me a message, you don't expect a response immediately because you know that I'm at lunch.

00:06:01:02 - 00:06:15:08
Wayne Turmel
Well, and even when you're there, I very often not that I am the patron saint of responsible communication, but I will preface it with, Hey, I don't need this answer right now.

00:06:15:13 - 00:06:16:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Right or no, But.

00:06:16:21 - 00:06:23:11
Wayne Turmel
When you get a chance, no rush. I will preface that so that I'm not adding to your stress.

00:06:24:02 - 00:06:26:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. And I appreciate that.

00:06:26:06 - 00:06:46:09
Wayne Turmel
Well, but it's called respectful communication. Right. So it's not the fault. It's not entirely the fault of the person sending the message. Right. Assuming that we have the discussion about when somebody has their do not disturb up, don't expect an answer.

00:06:46:13 - 00:06:49:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Right? Yeah, they may know one thing.

00:06:49:02 - 00:07:15:01
Wayne Turmel
If you get one. Consider yourself lucky, but. Right. That's not necessarily something that you should expect. And then it's incumbent on us to live our values. If one of those values is Don't bother me during lunch. You can put up your do not disturb or better yet, pause your notification. And what Slack does, which I love Teams, doesn't allow you to do it quite as easily, is you can put in a status.

00:07:15:06 - 00:07:16:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. I love that.

00:07:16:23 - 00:07:23:09
Wayne Turmel
Like, I'm going out. You know, when we're finished recording this, I'm taking my bride to lunch today.

00:07:23:19 - 00:07:24:09
Marisa Eikenberry
That's awesome.

00:07:24:10 - 00:07:38:04
Wayne Turmel
If I just. You. Yeah, but if I just use the little lunch icon people come in the house, Maybe I'm sitting at my desk. I will say when I leave here today, out for lunch, be back at X, have my phone with me.

00:07:38:11 - 00:07:39:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I want for.

00:07:39:09 - 00:07:44:11
Wayne Turmel
Training that message. There is no confusion over whether people should be expecting answers from me.

00:07:44:15 - 00:07:45:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:07:45:17 - 00:08:01:22
Wayne Turmel
So it takes just as it takes two to tango. It takes two to talk to each other over the messages. So it's not just that people ignore the slack messages, although they do. We can also control how much that tortures us.

00:08:02:13 - 00:08:12:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. And and we're always going to get the outlier every now and then. That's not going to see it. And there's nothing that they can do at all that you just it's just a part of work.

00:08:12:18 - 00:08:18:13
Wayne Turmel
Okay. I'm going to say something, and this is only between you and me and whoever happens to be listening to this.

00:08:19:00 - 00:08:19:14
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay.

00:08:19:20 - 00:08:22:18
Wayne Turmel
Some people are idiots.

00:08:24:00 - 00:08:24:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes.

00:08:26:08 - 00:08:32:05
Wayne Turmel
You can't manage to the exception, but you can recognize that exceptions exist.

00:08:32:22 - 00:08:54:13
Marisa Eikenberry
100%. And speaking of people who don't allow for exceptions, I'm going to move on to our next pet peeve from Nola Simon, who said “People who always insist on having cameras on.” I presume this is not just on one on one meetings. I know we've had a lot of conversation about how if you can put your cameras on during one on one meetings, it does help.

00:08:54:13 - 00:09:05:01
Marisa Eikenberry
It enriches the experience. But I assume she's also talking about even in like town hall type meetings where you and I have talked about, you know, you may not necessarily want your camera on.

00:09:05:23 - 00:09:32:00
Wayne Turmel
Here's the thing. And part a lot of this discussion comes from the history with your history with the other person. So, for example, I in the early days of my being in this business, I would say things like turn your camera on. And people would say to me with a perfectly straight face, they just want to see me on camera so they can make sure I'm working.

00:09:32:05 - 00:09:54:01
Wayne Turmel
Oh, good Lord, if that is your culture, right? If you believe that your leadership thinks like that or worse, your leadership actually thinks like that, there is no sane way to have this conversation. It's just going to be ugly and weird and stressful. I prefer whenever possible to be on camera because I want to see the person I'm talking to.

00:09:54:05 - 00:10:19:20
Wayne Turmel
I also understand that there are times when that is not ideal. Nobody needs to see you walking the dog. Yes, you can put your camera on and do zoom while you're walking the dog. But does that really add value? No. And by the way, it's making me a little queasy. You know, I just got back from the gym and I look like, heck or in my case, and I have told people this, you know this.

00:10:19:21 - 00:10:47:10
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. Yes. I will meet with you at 6:00 in the morning my time, because that's convenient for you. Do not expect to see my smiling face. I am not going to be showered. I am not going to be presentable. I mean, tomorrow morning hours. Our team meeting is at 7 a.m. my time. I will have my camera on, but I'm going to have my baseball cap on a shirt and I am not going to be shiny and happy and gorgeous for me.

00:10:47:14 - 00:10:49:18
Wayne Turmel
And you don't expect me to right?

00:10:49:18 - 00:11:07:10
Marisa Eikenberry
You and I have had conversations sometimes where you call the meeting early because I usually don't try to schedule anything with you super early. But you know, you need me for something to tech issue whatever it is and you'll tell me, Hey, I'm not going to have my camera on. And usually if you don't have yours on, I don't have mine on either because I feel like it's weird, but that's just me.

00:11:07:20 - 00:11:09:01
Wayne Turmel
Now, here's the thing.

00:11:09:07 - 00:11:09:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay?

00:11:09:21 - 00:11:27:23
Wayne Turmel
If there is a history of I never want to put my camera on, I don't ever want to be seen, that's a red flag for me that says to me, why not? And if your answer is a why, I don't want to. Not a good enough answer.

00:11:27:23 - 00:11:28:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:11:29:03 - 00:11:37:15
Wayne Turmel
I am prepared to work with you. Right. If it's lunchtime, you don't want to see me munching on it, doing a fish sandwich. Nobody wants to see that. Fine.

00:11:38:02 - 00:11:38:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:11:38:13 - 00:11:45:08
Wayne Turmel
A lot of times in meetings, people will put their camera on to say hello. And then once the meeting starts, the camera goes off.

00:11:45:11 - 00:11:46:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I've seen that a lot.

00:11:47:02 - 00:12:06:05
Wayne Turmel
That's fine. There are very few, thou shalt. Now, our rule in general is the richer the conversation, the more you want the webcam function. Right. So if we're having a team meeting, does it matter that you see me in the little box in the corner? Probably not.

00:12:06:17 - 00:12:07:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:12:07:10 - 00:12:27:14
Wayne Turmel
Matter of fact, the longer the meeting goes on, the less I want you to see me because my eyes are rolling and my phone and I'm doing things right. Doing. But the people speaking should be visible. That's actually true. And if I am participating, if I'm having thing, my camera comes on and people can see me, that's kind of the way it should work.

00:12:28:01 - 00:12:35:15
Wayne Turmel
But with large meetings, group meetings, it's not that important. If you and I are having a coaching conversation.

00:12:35:23 - 00:12:37:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Oh yeah, totally.

00:12:37:00 - 00:12:46:12
Wayne Turmel
We're having our one on one. I want to see your face. The smaller the group, the more intimate the discussion, the more that matters.

00:12:46:15 - 00:13:13:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, it's interesting that you say this, because I know I mean, we have people on our team. I won't name names that not that they don't want to have cameras on, like, ever. But it's like typically they just prefer not to. I'm used to those people. And so, like, I know that if I talk to, you know, Guy, typically it's over the phone or typically it's an audio only slack huddle or something like that, you know?

00:13:13:10 - 00:13:18:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Whereas I know that if I get on a call with you, unless you say otherwise, I'm turning my camera on.

00:13:18:22 - 00:13:52:10
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, my default is that, you know, I'm going to have I'm going to have my camera on and I want to talk to you. But I had a sales call this morning. We did it on teams myself and the client. I was on camera. The client knows how to use teams. He understands that there's a camera there. He chose not to do it like any you're any time you're communicating with other people, you have to think about how Rich does this communication need to be?

00:13:52:10 - 00:14:09:07
Wayne Turmel
How what are the states how rich is this communication? How do I fulfill my part of the bargain? You know, I don't think we've ever talked on the show about the 51% rule, which is in any communication. You own 51% of the responsibility.

00:14:09:22 - 00:14:11:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay. That makes sense.

00:14:11:03 - 00:14:16:14
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. You're both responsible for the communication working out. You should own just a little bit more.

00:14:16:20 - 00:14:22:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, Because if we both come in with that attitude, like, how rich is the communication now? There you.

00:14:22:07 - 00:14:36:02
Wayne Turmel
Go. Both people are taking responsibility. It's all good. And that's the thing. Why are people not turning their cameras on if it's because they're worried the NSA is listening? I have very little patience for that.

00:14:36:12 - 00:14:37:02
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:14:37:17 - 00:14:55:23
Wayne Turmel
You know, people aren't always in the right location or have the best lighting. You know, if you happen to be physically in a place and you're not set up for web communication and you've got the light behind you, you look like the mystery witness on 60 Minutes.

00:14:56:07 - 00:14:56:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Right?

00:14:57:14 - 00:14:59:16
Wayne Turmel
Then there's no value in you being on camera.

00:14:59:23 - 00:15:16:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Or you might be in a situation where, you know, your bandwidth is not great. I know I had that issue a lot last year. You know, I was in a place where my phone was my hotspot and it was like, I can get on a meeting with you, but I can't turn on my camera. And I made sure to communicate with that.

00:15:16:03 - 00:15:17:04
Marisa Eikenberry
And you guys knew that?

00:15:17:16 - 00:15:40:06
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, there are. There are government agencies that I've done training with that I'm on camera because I'm the trainer, but I know they can't do it or the network is just going to crash and teams is going to malfunction and it's going to get weird. So really talk to the person that you're communicating with. Does it matter that cameras are involved?

00:15:40:06 - 00:15:47:21
Wayne Turmel
Does it not? If you're not using your camera, why not? And understand the impact of using or not using it.

00:15:48:09 - 00:16:03:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, just like with anything that we talk about communication, you have to communicate with your people, talk about the situation. So, Wayne, thank you so much for talking about some of these pet peeves. I can't wait to get through some of these other ones that have been sent to us.

00:16:03:22 - 00:16:05:07
Wayne Turmel
And there are some beauties.

00:16:05:17 - 00:16:28:17
Marisa Eikenberry
There are some good ones like some of these are going to get juicy. And if you have a pet peeve that you would like us to talk about, absolutely let us know. Wherever you're watching, if you're watching this on YouTube, put it in a comment. If you're on our blog, put it in the comment there. But overall, listeners, thank you for listening to the Long-Distance Worklife for shownotes, transcripts and other resources.

00:16:28:22 - 00:16:49:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Make sure to visit longdistanceworklife.com. If you haven't yet subscribe to the podcast, you won't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, be sure to like and review. This helps us know what you love about our show. Feel free to contact us via email or LinkedIn with the links in our show notes. Let us know you listened to this episode or suggest a pet peeve or a future topic for Wayne, and I to attack on a future episode.

00:16:50:06 - 00:17:16:05
Marisa Eikenberry
If you'd like to learn more about remote teams, order Wayne and Kevin Eikenberry's new book, The Long-Distance Team. You can learn more about the book at LongDistanceTeamBook.com. Thanks for joining us. And as Wayne likes to say, don't let the weasels get you down.