00:00:08:03 - 00:00:38:05
Wayne Turmel
Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Long-Distance Worklife Podcast, the podcast where we try to help you figure it out, thrive, survive, generally keep the weasels at bay in this crazy world of remote and hybrid work. And today I am really, really excited. My name's Wayne Turmel by the way. Melissa is not with us because we, in fact, have a fabulous guest who I'm going to bring in right now.

00:00:38:11 - 00:00:54:23
Wayne Turmel
Ryan Jenkins is the coauthor. And as a coauthor, I'm very sensitive to making sure people get their credit. He is the coauthor with Steven Van Cohen of Connectable How Leaders Move Teams From Isolated to All In. Brian Jenkins is with us. Hi, Ryan.

00:00:55:14 - 00:00:56:13
Ryan Jenkins
Hey, Wayne. Thanks for having me.

00:00:57:10 - 00:01:08:21
Wayne Turmel
Thank you for being had. Here's the deal, by the way. I just realized I called Marisa Melissa a moment ago, so just, you know, clear it up.

00:01:08:22 - 00:01:10:00
Ryan Jenkins
My man got it cleared up.

00:01:10:18 - 00:01:20:04
Wayne Turmel
It's kind of like working in the kitchen. Ryan, I first of all, the book is terrific. For those of you who haven't read Connectable, please. Please do.

00:01:20:12 - 00:01:20:21
Ryan Jenkins
Thank you.

00:01:20:22 - 00:01:47:19
Wayne Turmel
But I was interested that you spent a whole lot of time on something that I think is really important and doesn't get a lot of conversation, which is this idea of loneliness at work and maybe you can help. It's always good to define terms. Maybe you can help us. What is the difference between loneliness and being alone? Because a lot of us actually kind of dig being alone to get our work done and whatever.

00:01:47:19 - 00:01:50:19
Wayne Turmel
But lonely is different. Let's start there.

00:01:51:20 - 00:02:17:01
Ryan Jenkins
Yeah. Great. Thanks for having me. Weigh in and look forward this conversation. I'll take it one step back. I won't answer your question, but I think it's important for folks to understand that loneliness isn't defined by the absence of people. It's defined by the absence of connection. So we, you know, viewers and listeners can probably relate. You've been in a crowded room at times and still can feel a sense of loneliness or disconnection because you don't have you don't connect with those people.

00:02:18:16 - 00:02:39:10
Ryan Jenkins
Same is true if you're working remotely to where if you're connected to the work, the your team members, your leader, you might not have the same strong sense of loneliness or isolation. Then that person in that room full of people did. So it's not predicated on that. The absence of people is the absence of connection. And then if you think of this idea of isolation, isolation really isn't positive or negative.

00:02:39:10 - 00:03:00:23
Ryan Jenkins
The negative state of isolation is loneliness. The positive state of isolation is solitude. And we talk at length in the book about how solitude is kind of this is the first defense. It's insurance against isolation or against loneliness. Excuse me, because think of I get back to the definition. It's not the absence of people. It's the absence of connection.

00:03:01:04 - 00:03:24:15
Ryan Jenkins
And one of the strongest connections we all have to have is that connection with oneself. And that can actually be had during solitude, where you're actually free from the inputs of other minds. So again, isolation is not positive or negative. The negative state is loneliness. The positive state is solitude. And of course, nowadays we're experiencing more heightened levels of loneliness for a myriad of reasons that we might go into.

00:03:24:21 - 00:03:42:01
Ryan Jenkins
But to your point alone, you can be alone, like in solitude, and not experience the negative state of loneliness. But loneliness is the negative state where you're having those negative emotions, where your mind and your body are actually in a fight or flight state because we're prone, we're vulnerable when we're alone or lonely.

00:03:42:22 - 00:04:04:06
Wayne Turmel
You know, this notion of loneliness seems like an odd discussion to be having when it comes to business, but it's actually been part of the conversation for a while. There was a very famous essay in a book in the late nineties called Bowling Alone that basically said we were becoming more and more separated from each other socially. Disconnect.

00:04:05:10 - 00:04:34:01
Wayne Turmel
And, you know, and then that was pre-Internet, you know, when that happened. And then the Internet happened and then all of a sudden there was COVID and we were really, really pushed, pushed out. What impact why do business people care about loneliness? I mean, this sounds like it's my me problem, not a new problem. Yeah. You know, why is there a business issue here?

00:04:34:22 - 00:04:57:00
Ryan Jenkins
The healthiest organizations balance high performance and worker well-being. You've got to balance both of those. You can't totally focus on high performance and sacrifice the well-being of your team because that results in burnout and high turnover rates. And you can't focus completely on worker well-being and cater to everyone's whim because then you're not delivering for the market or your customers or clients and you go out of business.

00:04:57:10 - 00:05:29:03
Ryan Jenkins
So you got to find this balance. And why it's important to address loneliness is because both ships rise. In that case, when you when you address loneliness, not only does worker well-being improve, but performance improves as well. So a good way to think about it is when we they've done research to when we experience exclusion, someone feels a sensation of exclusion, the same part of the brain that registers physical pain actually registers when we experience exclusion because again, our body is in a fight or flight state when we feel lonely or excluded.

00:05:29:18 - 00:05:52:13
Ryan Jenkins
So if that's the case, that's as if we're showing up to work with a bleeding appendage and we wouldn't want anybody to tell us, hey, go ignore that bleeding appendage and get to work. Well, you're not to be able to focus. We're distracted at best for debilitating that worse. Same thing is true with these invisible ailments. And we're so glad that the conversation around mental health at work is, is, is, is growing because it's so important.

00:05:52:21 - 00:06:10:22
Ryan Jenkins
But I think if we can solve for loneliness, if we can create connection, everything else flows from that. We're going to we're going to see less burnout, less stress at work, anxiety languishing. Because we are wildly, all of us, all of humanity. I'm convinced after three years of studying it, we are wildly underestimating how much we need human connection.

00:06:11:05 - 00:06:22:18
Ryan Jenkins
And there's so many things that are our life now where we're it's keeping our loneliness levels at a manageable level and we're just doing enough communication when we're not actually connecting.

00:06:23:23 - 00:06:52:18
Wayne Turmel
There are about three things that you just said there that I want to put pins in. One is that our research certainly shows that one of the number one problems in remote and especially hybrid teams is exclusion. That and it's not always a oh, we don't want to play with Ryan in the sandbox. It's we're literally not thinking about Ryan because he's out of sight and out of mind.

00:06:53:14 - 00:07:26:15
Wayne Turmel
And of course, if you are an introvert by nature or you're new to the team and you don't have the existing relationships, exclusion is a very real thing. The second thing that you said is kind of tied to that, which is, you know, we part of engagement is do you have a friend at work? And when they measure employee engagement, right, that's always one of the main questions.

00:07:26:15 - 00:08:00:18
Wayne Turmel
Do you have a really good friend at work and more and more the answer is kind of no. And one of the reasons for this, I think I'm getting to a question, one of the reasons I think is that two thirds of the social interaction that we get for the week traditionally has taken place through our work. If you remove that or greatly reduce the amount of social interaction that you're getting at work that has an impact on everything else.

00:08:00:18 - 00:08:16:06
Wayne Turmel
So what can we I guess there's an organizational level, there's a team level and there's an individual level. Let's start with the individual level. What do we do to avoid loneliness at work as individuals?

00:08:17:19 - 00:08:39:14
Ryan Jenkins
Yeah, the first step and so much of this to overcome all this is awareness. You know, you think about how long we had automobiles before we actually put in seatbelts, right? I think it was like 50 years with the automobile before. It takes us a long time to kind of wrap our heads around some of these these, you know, new age challenges and then to implement something.

00:08:39:21 - 00:08:57:18
Ryan Jenkins
But so often, you know, if you ask a psychologist, they would tell you you got to name it before you can tame it. And so we've got resources for folks can actually identify the loneliness levels in themselves empirically validated to figure out where am I at with this? And again, this is a universal human condition, so there's no shame in loneliness.

00:08:57:19 - 00:09:19:23
Ryan Jenkins
It's literally our biological cue that we belong with each other and we all experience it differently. It could be situational, it can be relational. There's all different aspects that can kind of lead to loneliness. But the biggest first step is to just start kind of being more aware of it and try to find, you know, what are your personal loneliness levels when and where do you experience it?

00:09:20:06 - 00:09:30:08
Ryan Jenkins
And then just try to find pro-social behaviors, just one or two pro-social behaviors each day that kind of pull back and nurture your connections in your.

00:09:30:08 - 00:09:54:00
Wayne Turmel
It's a paradox to that, though. What I'm hearing is absolutely right, which is you need to be proactive, right? The more drive you need to be proactive. The challenge is when you are truly lonely. Along with that comes depression and self-loathing and all kinds of lovely things, which of course reduce your desire or ability to reach out and be proactive.

00:09:55:14 - 00:10:26:00
Ryan Jenkins
You are right, my friend. Yeah, exactly. So we tend to turn inward, which is the exact opposite of what we should be doing. So it's really hard for us individually to tackle loneliness. All of us should just assume that we are prone to loneliness and consistently keep yourself in community with others. And then the second tier that you talked about around team or community, that's what's really important because we need to be aware of these disconnection or isolation or loneliness signs of those around us because it does take us.

00:10:26:00 - 00:10:47:01
Ryan Jenkins
It takes a community to pull folks in when they might be slipping away, because you can't just you can't just do it yourself. If it was as easy as telling a lonely person to go get a pet or go to a happy hour, this wouldn't be a problem. Right? So it's way more complex than that. And I'll give you one tip as it relates to kind of this team or community.

00:10:47:01 - 00:11:13:09
Ryan Jenkins
And we research we didn't research. We we interviewed Steve Cole, who's out of UCLA, and he studies loneliness at the molecular level, which is extraordinarily fascinating. And he talks about there's a trap door in connecting with someone that's experiencing severe levels of isolation or loneliness because and he says, trap door to your point to where folks, when we're experiencing loneliness, we turn inward and we distrust everybody else.

00:11:13:10 - 00:11:32:13
Ryan Jenkins
It can be really hard to connect and pull folks in, which is why we all have to be more open and proactive about all this. But Steve Cole says the trap door is four words. And before I give you those four words, I'll tell you little bit of the science behind this. So when we when our when our bodies experience some type of threat, the threat circuitry in our brain lights up.

00:11:32:13 - 00:11:50:15
Ryan Jenkins
And that's when we go into flight or fight state of a fight or flight stage. And so good examples of that building of buildings on fire. Your threat circuitry is high and you're running away from that threat. Same thing happens when we're experiencing loneliness. We feel there's a threat. And so we run away from it. We're running away from people.

00:11:51:03 - 00:12:11:07
Ryan Jenkins
But the way we can get around that is through meaning. So, for example, if that, if the if the building is being on fire, normally you'd run away from it. But if you have something meaningful in that building, such as a child, you might you're going to you're going to you're going to overthrow that threat circuitry and you'll run into that building when there's some type of of meaning there.

00:12:11:15 - 00:12:31:20
Ryan Jenkins
And so what Steve Cole suggests to pull people out of loneliness and isolation is four words I need your help. So it's pulling people. It's trying to attach more meaning and trying to help people see that the contribution that they're that they bring to the table they bring to the team is useful because that's, you know, back when we roamed the plains, our ancestors roamed the plains.

00:12:31:20 - 00:12:53:18
Ryan Jenkins
If you weren't contributing to a tribe, that meant you were vulnerable to getting excluded. And when you were excluded, there was all kinds of things that would it could eat you or kill you. And so we have this innate desire and survival tactic to actually want to contribute. And sometimes it takes other people around us to show us what that unique contribution that we make is.

00:12:54:22 - 00:13:18:13
Wayne Turmel
As a leader, assuming you yourself are functional and grounded and able to have peripheral vision about this stuff, what should a leader be looking for? Signs that somebody is disconnected to the point of loneliness, for lack of a better term?

00:13:19:13 - 00:13:45:06
Ryan Jenkins
Yeah, there's there's there's a lot of we've identified ten indicators. I'll just give you a few of them. One of them is, is excessive working. Right. That can be a way. So if you start seeing emails late in the evening, early morning, just around the clock working, that could be a way for people to not be not want to step into some of their interpersonal or relational priorities at work in life.

00:13:45:06 - 00:14:13:08
Ryan Jenkins
So excessive working can be one an apathetic attitude, a change in routine is also a good indicator. So if you could if you could get a sense of the kind of the cadence and routine of your team, so when that breaks that that's an indicator. And then just kind of a lack of learning in development, someone that doesn't want to engage in career progression conversations or isn't learning, not really adapting to a growth mindset and wanting to better themselves, that can be an indicator as well.

00:14:14:17 - 00:14:41:23
Wayne Turmel
And as we promised, we get to the organizational level too. And this seems like a harder thing to get our minds around because organizations can organize events and, you know, you can bring people in once a year and you can have virtual happy hours and whatever the heck else they're organizing. What really meaningful things can organizations do?

00:14:41:23 - 00:15:04:09
Ryan Jenkins
Yeah, we've seen something that's been really helpful is peer coaching. So organizations that create environments where people can can connect at a very deep level, but also have it be meaningful to the organization. So peer coaching is found to be really, really helpful. And that's exactly what it sounds like is having two people coach each other. And there's no there's no kind of hierarchy to it.

00:15:04:09 - 00:15:30:12
Ryan Jenkins
It's just, hey, we're going to wade into each other's lives and talk a little bit personal, a little bit about work and alternate, who who's helping who. That can be really helpful. The idea to of of of clear direction is really, really important. We actually profile astronauts in the book and we asked astronauts, you know, they operate 254 miles away from civilization and they will see maybe 11 people in a whole year.

00:15:30:12 - 00:15:53:13
Ryan Jenkins
So they're they're operating in extreme isolation. So we asked them, hey, how do you deal with isolation and loneliness? How do you keep loneliness at bay? And they're there. They're single answer. Their top answer was clear direction. So clarity. And that's not something that we normally think about. Right. But think about if you were to go on a hike without without a map, well, you're likely you're susceptible to wander.

00:15:53:14 - 00:16:18:08
Ryan Jenkins
When you wander, you're lost when you're lost or lonesome. And we see a lot of organizations that just aren't clear in kind of the direction they're going or clear as to what the purpose of the team or that department is. And so leaders can play a really unique role in that, in creating more clarity for their teams. And, you know, we often call leaders the chief reminding officers, like, you just got to consistently, consistently remind folks.

00:16:18:15 - 00:16:20:16
Ryan Jenkins
And again, it's so crucial, especially when.

00:16:20:16 - 00:16:21:01
Wayne Turmel
We're in a.

00:16:21:02 - 00:16:35:13
Ryan Jenkins
Remote or hybrid environment, because it's so easy for us to kind of lose track of what it is we're doing. And and that clear direction is so important. So to sum that up, that would be confusion, spurs alienation, but connect the clarity cultivates connection.

00:16:36:14 - 00:17:02:08
Wayne Turmel
And there's a very thick line to be drawn again to meaning. Right? The role of meaning, meaning in the work, meaning to the tasks. Yeah. And all of that. Good stuff. Ryan, I could geek out on this for a very long time. For those of you who haven't read the book Connectable How Leaders Move From Isolated to all in place do so.

00:17:02:20 - 00:17:23:11
Wayne Turmel
You and I were talking before the tape was rolling, though, and I don't want to let this go by a because we think about remote work, we think about the technology involved to make all of that happen. You actually have a technology to help people be less lonely.

00:17:23:11 - 00:17:49:10
Ryan Jenkins
Yes. Yeah, I know. It's kind of a it seems contradictory at times. And in the book we talk about how technology is causing us to choose convenience over connection. And we're slowly turning our backs on humanity when we're when we consistently choose to adopt more technology. But we think we're trying to find the best of both worlds. We're trying to make it convenient, but also then use that convenience as a way to cultivate space for more connections.

00:17:49:23 - 00:18:22:01
Ryan Jenkins
And so, yeah, we, you know, we're all about creating solutions to overcome this loneliness issue. Yes, loneliness has been rising ever since the Bowling Alone came about, and it's still continue to rise. But that means it's malleable, which means it can come down. And we built a tool called Like Minded. It's like minded A.I., where it's a tech platform that actually helps folks find friends at work and it uses a personality assessment, kind of your interest in your your career or life stage to match you with folks where, you know, you'll have a really deep connection.

00:18:22:01 - 00:18:40:10
Ryan Jenkins
And we've found that to be really helpful because oftentimes people want that connection, but it's just like, where do I start? And I don't want to get down a certain path. And that, you know, not work out and it's clunky. So we wanted to give a tool that really helps folks to to get rid of all that. And we're excited about where this where this could go.

00:18:40:19 - 00:18:43:16
Wayne Turmel
Which just sounds like eHarmony for work buddies.

00:18:44:20 - 00:18:45:21
Ryan Jenkins
You got it. You nailed it.

00:18:47:12 - 00:19:16:06
Wayne Turmel
Ryan Jenkins, thank you so much for being with us. I'll give you the last word in just a moment. I want to remind people thank you for listening to the Long-Distance Work Life podcast. You guys know the drill. You listen to podcasts or you wouldn't be here. Please like and subscribe. Tell your friends about us. The show notes links to everything, including this software that Ryan was just talking about will be on our website long distance worklife dot com.

00:19:16:20 - 00:19:40:18
Wayne Turmel
You can take advantage of a four part video series on demystifying remote work. You'll find that on the site. And of course, if you want to connect with myself or Marissa who is not Melissa way way to Kevin Eikenberry dot com Marissa and Kevin Eikenberry dot com. I will never hear the end of this. Ryan, last word goes to you, man.

00:19:40:18 - 00:20:06:23
Ryan Jenkins
You know, I love this quote we profiled in the book from the late Robin Williams, the actor and comedian. He once said, I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone, he said. It's not the worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone. So may we never be the people that make others feel lonely, especially when we're with them, and especially when they're on our teams.

00:20:08:02 - 00:20:37:07
Wayne Turmel
Preach, brother. Thanks, everybody for joining with us on the Long-Distance Worklife. My name is Wayne Turmel. We will see you on the next episode. Don't let the weasels get you down.

00:00:08:08 - 00:00:38:00
Wayne Turmel
Hello everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the Long-Distance Worklife podcast. This is the podcast where we try to make sense of the crazy world of remote and hybrid work and working from home and generally trying to keep the weasels at bay. You know, one of the things that is tough about working from home or working from anywhere is handling the distractions and getting your mind right.

00:00:38:10 - 00:00:58:12
Wayne
And I found a site recently on YouTube that I think is worth discussing. And so we are going to chat with the founder of Meditative Bliss. And this is Kevin. Hi, Kevin. Who are you? What is Meditative Bliss? And then we'll actually get into our conversation.

00:00:59:04 - 00:01:23:09
Kevin Pierson
Okay. So my name's Kevin Pierson. Nice to meet all of you. And I started the YouTube channel, Meditative Bliss, which focuses on creating meditative music using various interested instruments, not limited, but including guitar, piano, a hand band we do. We use all kinds of instruments to get you to a relaxing place and combination with ISO chronic tones or by natural beats.

00:01:24:00 - 00:01:47:17
Kevin
Now those I'll give you a quick little rundown of are those are the synchronized sounds that only have a certain frequency in each ear. And every time you listen to them on both ears, it creates a certain phenomenon in your mind or your brain, actually, where you get into a more calm, collective state. Now, the goal of this channel was to do just that, get people to relax, meditate, sleep, aid.

00:01:48:02 - 00:02:04:05
Kevin
We want people to feel relaxed in these crazy times. We know pandemic economy, you name it, you know. So that's that's what we're about.

00:02:06:02 - 00:02:17:01
Wayne
So, Kevin, I mean, you've worked from home. I work from home. What are the types of things that stress us out that we need to get under control?

00:02:18:03 - 00:02:38:12
Kevin
Stress comes from several factors. One, your boss wants you to meet your deadlines. And when you keep pushing and pushing and pushing and don't give yourself a break, you're going to burn out. So how do you avoid this is you need to find a balance. Unfortunately, a lot of companies these days are more about productivity, getting things done.

00:02:38:18 - 00:03:04:13
Kevin
But there is that 15 minute break. And what I used to do when I was working for particular companies, I used to take 5 minutes, just 5 minutes out of my time to breathe deeply three times and just focus and be in the present moment. That's how I dealt with it, and it gave me a quick recharge. Now your mileage may vary, but as far as what stresses people out, that is very loaded.

00:03:04:21 - 00:03:23:11
Kevin
A lot of people are most likely just very, very focused. They don't give themselves any time to breathe. They're hyper focused. There is no time to do anything else but get the job done. Now, it depends also about what you do. If you're a call center, you're going to be back to back calls. That's not going to stop.

00:03:23:21 - 00:03:50:03
Kevin
So what I used to do when I was up back to back calls, I would state I would make sure I'm sure that you know this, too. But there is a program called the Finesse Program where people who work from home at particularly call centers have to wrap up the call in a certain amount of time. Now, that's just one example of how you are constantly being overloaded for 4 hours and tell your, Oh, I say it's for 2 hours and 30 minutes till you get your break.

00:03:50:15 - 00:04:13:20
Kevin
But then when people would take take their break, they're doing stuff that's not actually relaxing them and that causes more stress. They're probably thinking about their personal life while also also simultaneously taking care of their job. And as time has gone on, that productivity requirements has gone up. So my advice, in order to try to get the stress down would be to try to be more calm about it.

00:04:13:21 - 00:04:30:11
Kevin
Just collect your thoughts, try to calm down and don't take it too seriously because you do not want to stress yourself out to the point where you have a health issue. I did this to myself one time. I was on a IT call. I won't. And again, I won't say, you know who that was. But it took so long.

00:04:30:11 - 00:04:48:15
Kevin
I was so complicated and I was so fixated on trying to fix the problem. I ended up almost making myself pass out. So it's very important that you keep your, how should I say, your Zen in focus? You need to be centered. Do not get too enthralled in what you're doing. Do that.

00:04:48:15 - 00:05:24:01
Wayne
Then there's a couple of things here that I think we need to kind of be clear about. One is that, you know, nothing stresses us out more like for the love of God, stop stressing. Yeah, it becomes this kind of self-fulfilling nightmare. But the other thing is that when you say meditation and zen, then all of these things, there is kind of some initial skepticism from a great number of people.

00:05:24:01 - 00:05:51:17
Wayne
And I try not to be one of them because I understand the kind of academically how meditation works. My little A.D.D., squirrel infested brain doesn't always allow me to do the things I should do. So let's take a step back. What does it mean? What does meditation do? And what is it and what isn't it?

00:05:53:03 - 00:06:12:02
Kevin
I could just like, clarify. Okay, so meditation in itself, as we all have come to know it, is putting the body to stillness. Putting the mind to stillness is simply focusing on the breath. What this does to the body and the mind is it puts it into a calm state where your muscles loosen up. Your mind is not tense.

00:06:12:06 - 00:06:18:03
Kevin
Your thoughts begin to slow and breathing becomes easy, easier. Everything actually becomes easier. I mean.

00:06:18:06 - 00:06:28:02
Wayne
So it's a physical thing. It's a physical and mental thing. It's not necessary tied to philosophy or anything else. Right there is.

00:06:28:02 - 00:06:52:16
Kevin
Oh, no, no, no. It's this even science has taken a hard look at this. And they have reported that as the conscious mind begins to relax. So does the body and the mind. What do I mean by that? Well, your subconscious is constantly doing tasks in the background, just like a computer. You're. And while you're focusing on your, you know, your frontal lobe, your conscious, the day to day tasks, that makes it more difficult.

00:06:52:17 - 00:07:12:04
Kevin
Believe it or not, your brain's doing a lot at all times, even when at that rest, even when it's sleeping. So the whole point of meditation is to mitigate the risk of stress and its negative effects on the body and the mind. So by putting yourself in the present moment and focusing on the breath, you're actually partaking in linear body.

00:07:12:04 - 00:07:30:09
Kevin
Take take upon itself, true rest. Now, I was skeptical about it first myself. I thought I was a watcher woo. You know, when I was younger I was I would say about 13, 14 years old. I gave it a shot. I tried it, I gave it. I put 5 minutes in and I noticed that everything was just clear.

00:07:30:12 - 00:07:47:01
Kevin
It's hard to describe. And how you do that is by focusing on your breath and letting all thoughts leave your mind. Don't worry about anything for a moment. For a period of time, you are to let everything go. And then when you come back, you're refreshed.

00:07:48:02 - 00:08:19:18
Wayne
Now, that is that's a great description of it, by the way. And thanks to whatever out of it, which to a lot of people is a barrier. Right. If you think that it's associated with, you know, I am fat and old, the lotus position is not going to happen. Right. So but what I do find interesting about what you do is it's about the audio kind of background, what's going on.

00:08:19:18 - 00:08:40:10
Wayne
People like to say there's so much going on and yet people keep a lot of audio wallpaper going on around them, whether it's the radio or the TV or whatever is going on. I mean, why do we do that? And then, you know, what does that do to us when we're trying to work?

00:08:41:07 - 00:08:59:06
Kevin
Well, everybody's different in this regard. But basically when you start focusing on other tasks like, say, you're taking a 15 minute break, right? You want to see what's going on with the football game. You're stressed out, but you're not relaxing. You're trying to figure out who's winning the game or you're trying to watch like a short little clip on YouTube or anything else in between.

00:08:59:06 - 00:09:26:20
Kevin
Maybe you realize use a restroom. But the initial problem here is, is that a lot of people assume, and I still do this, that external stimuli like video games, TV, it's going to make you happy. It's going to refresh you. It doesn't it doesn't do that for you at all. Some people, they can make it work. You know, they can be like, okay, you know, I just watched a very short song of their from, I don't know, Katy Perry or something and it made me feel relax and that's fine.

00:09:26:20 - 00:09:45:17
Kevin
That's your process, whatever gets you into that state. But if you want to get into a true rest, you have to quiet the mind and let the body be still. And I know that's not a lot of time because again, 15 minutes goes like that. And next thing you know, you're back on the phone or doing whatever you got to do on the computer.

00:09:46:03 - 00:10:09:06
Kevin
So my advice is to get at least 5 minutes. 5 minutes. Don't focus on anything. Sit perfectly still. Is in a perfectly comfortable position. Focus on your breath. By the time you get to one, two and three breaths and you're totally focused on the task at hand to do nothing, your body will respond. You will see a difference.

00:10:09:06 - 00:10:34:01
Kevin
And you said mentioned earlier that you have ADHD and hi, we're partners. I have I can't focus. Sometimes I get distracted. I'm like, oh, look, a bee, you know, I've done that. I have the attention span of a child sometimes, and that's why I am all over the place. But long story short, I don't want anyone out there to think that they can't take those 5 minutes.

00:10:34:01 - 00:10:44:08
Kevin
It's going to take practice. And it might even feel uncomfortable at first because you're basically like, Wait, what's this? I don't like this. What is this? What is this? It's going to have.

00:10:44:15 - 00:11:13:00
Wayne
That idea of discomfort, I think plays a role. I know that for me, the older I get, the less. For example, when I'm walking or exercising, I don't plug in my earbuds. Right? I don't listen. I try to be kind of in tune with what's going on around me. Right. You know, and constantly having music doesn't help me.

00:11:13:00 - 00:11:38:00
Wayne
And I do it less and less as I'm writing and working. But what you're doing with meditative bliss is you are creating. It's like if you're going to play music, let's have it. Actually, it's serve a purpose, right? So it's a little bit more about how you're choosing this music and how people should be listening to it.

00:11:39:00 - 00:11:59:08
Kevin
Well, there isn't a right or wrong way to go about it. All I want you to do, if you listen to my music, is simply just relax. Don't even worry about the music will do it for you. Because like I said, in the actual music behind the actual instruments that are playing there is by neural beats and AIS with chronic tones.

00:11:59:20 - 00:12:25:15
Kevin
Those are a scientific I can't really explain it in layman's terms. Basically, it's like an audio program. It's meant to get your range with a certain frequency. It's like takes you from, I'm stressed to I'm here, you know what I mean? You're present. So regarding the actual totality of what it is I'm trying to do, I'm trying to get people to relax, listening to something that's not going to stress them out or like you're not.

00:12:25:15 - 00:12:54:08
Kevin
Listen to some rock and roll song. You're not listening to somebody sing. You're listening to just instruments playing and people expressing their soul, trying to get you to calm down. And those those tunes, all those terms we produce, they actually create a sense of peace and calm. And that's what our ultimate mission is. So when you listen to are those that type of music and I'm not the only one who does this, there's plenty more.

00:12:54:08 - 00:13:14:02
Kevin
In fact, I'm actually kind of, you know, I would say late to the game almost. I just decided I wanted to start doing something I love. So I started teaming up with certain individuals and we started collaborating, making music that just takes you to a peaceful place. Think of your favorite movie. All right? Where there's a scene where it's perfectly calm.

00:13:14:02 - 00:13:30:12
Kevin
You sit and you hear the set, the music in the background, that's basically the same concept, except you're going to be in your head, you're going to just be relax and you're going to be like this, or either be meditating of focusing on your breath, or you're going to be actually just laying down. Or maybe you want to keep doing your work.

00:13:30:21 - 00:13:47:18
Kevin
Some people have audio that increases concentration without actually increasing stress. So by keeping your mind distracted by the sounds, you can actually increase productivity and rest. I don't know if I kind of bounced around in your question there first.

00:13:48:02 - 00:14:20:14
Wayne
You know, I think I think that makes sense. I mean, you know, like you say, a lot of times we do things in the name of relaxation or probably more likely distraction from what we're doing that actually, you know, the brain is continuing to work really hard. And what we're trying to do is just bring it down. And that, of course, helps productivity.

00:14:20:14 - 00:14:57:19
Wayne
If someone is thinking about using tools like yours and as you say, there are no shortage of places on YouTube or wherever that you can find this stuff, whether it's guided meditation or or just the ambient music. How do they start? Because it especially, you know, people in the Western tradition kind of think that there's all this stuff associated with meditation and mindfulness that I have.

00:14:57:20 - 00:15:21:16
Kevin
Maybe I have sorry, I have heard about that. I haven't experienced it directly, but I have heard people say the meditation is a path somewhere dark, and that's it's not true. It's all it really is is a tool to get you to relax. I mean, as far as I am concerned, meditation was introduced to us even before Buddha perhaps.

00:15:22:06 - 00:15:42:14
Kevin
And the concept again is to reset the mind. And as we know, our minds are constantly, constantly doing stuff, even when we're at rest, we're thinking about things on a subconscious level, and that puts stress on the body and the mind. And as far as the music is concerned, that's the, you know, the ex machina, if you will.

00:15:42:21 - 00:15:52:07
Kevin
It actually puts you in that place so that when you actually start focusing on your breath and focusing on in a more calm state, you will notice the effects much quicker.

00:15:53:15 - 00:16:20:03
Wayne
Well, seriously, I just had no idea if this is a valid analogy, but for even the most skeptical I.T. engineering type of person, what's the answer when your computer is spinning and spinning and not going anywhere is you turn it off and reboot it. And that's essentially what we're talking about here is we're doing a hard boot on ourselves.

00:16:21:17 - 00:16:44:20
Kevin
That I love. You brought that up because that is the first rule. Whenever anything is happening and I'm like, okay, I don't know what's going on with this computer, I want to reset it. So that actually works really well here. So yeah, that's, that's exactly what it is. But get this, our brains are even more powerful. Those computers and those 5 minutes, 5 minutes can do wonders.

00:16:44:20 - 00:17:03:13
Kevin
And I completely get it because you know what people don't understand? Like your stress can stack, you can just like your happiness can stack the since we're living in such difficult periods of time here, you know, people are constantly, constantly stressed out. They like they have no time to rest. I got to do this. I'm thinking about this.

00:17:03:22 - 00:17:21:05
Kevin
Oh, I just got a 15 minute break from my call center job or whatever I'm doing now. I have to figure out how to calm myself down, and I got no time to calm down. I got to keep on pressing through and see what I can get done, but eventually that's going to catch up. And I know it's not your fault either, because, you know, companies, they have a very strict guidelines about what they expect.

00:17:21:22 - 00:17:54:18
Wayne
Well, yes, the companies do put pressure on us, and a lot of it is self-inflicted. Let me ask you one more question, which is we've been talking about the audio and how that impacts the brain. What should we be doing with the rest of us that's during this rest period or whatever? I mean, is it what physically should we be doing to maximize the impact of this?

00:17:55:12 - 00:18:12:10
Kevin
Well, you don't need to be in a lotus position. That's just a that. So yeah. Yes, knock that off the list. You don't need to be in the lowest position. You could be in any comfortable position that you need to be in. If you want to stand upside down doing a handstand that's comfortable to you, go for it.

00:18:12:10 - 00:18:32:15
Kevin
I mean, I think it's impractical, but long story short, all you got to do is just sit in that chair, get comfortable, adjust your back, let your arms rest. No tension whatsoever. Let it go. Just keep focusing on letting go of that tension. No matter how much it says, you know, your mind tells you like we got to tense up because I got to do this.

00:18:33:03 - 00:18:53:21
Kevin
Never listen to it. Okay? And that that moment of time you're giving yourself, whether it's 5 minutes, 15 minutes or even an hour, whatever it is for your practice, if you give your your body the opportunity to sit still and listen to this music, not just my end yet we get there's plenty of other good music out there, too, besides meditative bliss.

00:18:54:02 - 00:19:15:00
Kevin
Not trying to not promote myself here. Yeah, but long story short, if you give your body the opportunity to sit still, even for 5 minutes, and focus on your breath while listening to this music, or even put the music on a low volume while you work, it'll keep you in a, you know, a straight line. Because when your brain's going and doing stuff, it's all over the place.

00:19:15:00 - 00:19:35:00
Kevin
It's bouncing all over the place. So what you want to do is you want to be centered and you'll notice when it happens to. As for those who have trouble with this being the fact I struggle with this with myself, I would suggest you just keep trying till it becomes natural. This is unfortunately for some people going to be a practice makes perfect perfect kind of deal.

00:19:35:03 - 00:19:39:09
Kevin
However it's something you should definitely look into. It will do wonders.

00:19:39:09 - 00:19:44:15
Wayne
There's certainly a reason they call meditation a practice, right?

00:19:45:02 - 00:19:45:21
Kevin
Yeah.

00:19:45:21 - 00:20:19:10
Wayne
Kevin, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. I think that we get caught up in the day to day of which technology we should be using and how do we become more productive, and how do I squeeze out the last ounce of my brain into my work and something as and I use the word simple. Simple is not always easy, but something as simple as this, as a way of getting some of that energy and focus back, I think is is important for people to consider.

00:20:19:15 - 00:20:47:17
Wayne
So thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. As you know, if you've been listening to the show for a while, if you go to longdistanceworklife.com, you will find links to Meditative Bliss and Kevin's socials and all of that. Good stuff, please. You know the drill. You listen to podcasts like subscribe, tell your friends if you are listening to Meditative Bliss, like subscribe and tell your friends.

00:20:47:17 - 00:21:24:23
Wayne
That's how this crazy ecosystem works. Before I let Kevin go, I just want to remind you that if you are not familiar with the work of the Remote Leadership Institute, do check out the Long-Distance Worklife page. There is a link to a four part free video series. We urge you to take advantage of you can also on the website ask questions which we then integrate into episodes where Marisa joins me and we answer your questions and concerns.

00:21:25:06 - 00:21:32:18
Wayne
So thank you very much for being with us. Kevin Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate your time.

00:21:32:18 - 00:21:39:19
Kevin
I appreciate you having me here. I really appreciate you have me on your show. I thanks everybody for having me and I hope to see you on my channel.

00:21:40:13 - 00:22:14:09
Wayne
And with that, keep the weasels at bay. Take it easy. Have a great, great day. Thank you for listening to the long distance work life. You can reach me Wayne@KevinEikenberry.com. Marisa@KevinEikenberry.com. Have a great day. Thanks so much.