Remote Work Rants: Should You Turn Your Camera On for Every Meeting?

00:00:07:21 - 00:00:18:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Welcome back to the Long-Distance Worklife where we help you lead, work and thrive in remote and hybrid teams. I'm Marisa Eikenberry, a fellow remote worker. And joining me is my co-host and remote work expert Wayne Turmel. How are you doing?

00:00:19:09 - 00:00:32:13
Wayne Turmel
I am well. I am- You know, we hear the word disgruntled, which by definition means that the word must be gruntled. If you are not if you are not disgruntled, you must be gruntled.

00:00:32:14 - 00:00:33:03
Marisa Eikenberry
So are you gruntled?

00:00:33:04 - 00:00:36:09
Wayne Turmel
I’m gruntled today, I am at one with the universe.

00:00:36:16 - 00:00:53:21
Marisa Eikenberry
I love that because we're actually going to be talking about things that tick people off today. Some of you may have listened to our past episode where we talked about pet peeves, and we've decided that that's going to be a series because so many of you set so many pet peeves that we really need to talk about. So we're going to continue with some of the ones that were sent to us.

00:00:54:08 - 00:01:09:03
Marisa Eikenberry
And I'm going to start off with @NikSoro on Twitter sent us one that says, it really makes him mad when people don't check your Slack status before you mess, before they message you. So I'm sure we both have thoughts on that.

00:01:10:04 - 00:01:11:23
Wayne Turmel
Well, I'm kind of curious.

00:01:13:03 - 00:01:13:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah.

00:01:13:10 - 00:01:15:08
Wayne Turmel
What what are your thoughts on that?

00:01:15:22 - 00:01:36:13
Marisa Eikenberry
So for me, I think it depends if, you know, like right now I have a Slack status up and I have my notifications turned off because we're podcasting right now. And so I want our team members to know, “Hey, I will get back to you in an hour.” Like, I just, you know, I don't mind if they're messaging me now because I have the notifications off.

00:01:36:13 - 00:02:01:00
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm not going to see them until it's time to see them. I don't even mind if people send me something that my do not disturb hours because it's very obvious that I'm in, do not disturb, and I will see them when I see them later. So maybe it's just me that isn't quite as bothered by this unless. Unless I have my lunch status on then sometime and maybe this is on me and I should actually shut my notifications off during lunch.

00:02:01:06 - 00:02:10:20
Marisa Eikenberry
But I do put up a lunch Slack status and there are times I get pinged ten or 12 times while it's sitting downstairs with my husband and I'm like, “Oh my God, I'm eating lunch!”

00:02:11:19 - 00:02:13:12
Wayne Turmel
You obviously don't have children.

00:02:14:00 - 00:02:15:04
Marisa Eikenberry
I mean, 100%.

00:02:15:04 - 00:02:40:11
Wayne Turmel
We have we have totally developed the ability to do what we're doing with people nattering at us in the background. What you said is really important, and that's why I wanted it to come from your mouth instead of mine, which is you have told them what the what the deal is. They are free to send messages and you will jolly well get to them when you get to them.

00:02:41:00 - 00:02:52:09
Wayne Turmel
You have the discipline and the ability. And by the way, you've taken the initiative to take your notifications off so you're not getting pinged and dinged and all of that stuff.

00:02:52:12 - 00:02:52:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:02:53:10 - 00:03:02:15
Wayne Turmel
All of us are smart enough to know that you are through working with you for any length of time. You are extremely quick to respond if you’re available.

00:03:03:06 - 00:03:03:19
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. As much as I can.

00:03:03:20 - 00:03:27:00
Wayne Turmel
If you are not available, you will respond as quickly as you can. And by the way, when you say I'm not getting notifications, you mean it. Now, does that mean I can't send you a message when you're not getting notifications? No. “Oh, I have a question for Marisa. I'll type the question and send it to her,” knowing that it is now in your inbox and you will get to it when you get to it.

00:03:27:04 - 00:03:33:02
Wayne Turmel
It's off my plate. I don't have to worry about remembering to send it to you later.

00:03:33:04 - 00:03:33:13
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:03:34:07 - 00:03:35:17
Wayne Turmel
Everybody's happy.

00:03:35:23 - 00:03:41:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. And I mean, we could we could talk about, you know, the scheduling feature on Slack, too, but. Well, we'll digress.

00:03:41:10 - 00:04:11:17
Wayne Turmel
That's the whole point. Whether it's Slack or Outlook or Teams or whatever you're using, there are tools that are available to do that. But there are two parts to the discussion. The first part is the person sending the message Are they respectful and intelligent enough to understand that the world doesn't revolve around them and that you intend to answer them and they will get an answer if you are not there and they need an answer.

00:04:12:01 - 00:04:15:06
Wayne Turmel
Maybe the answer is go find the answer from somebody else.

00:04:15:16 - 00:04:17:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Or pick up the phone, depending on what the Slack status says.

00:04:18:05 - 00:04:44:15
Wayne Turmel
Whatever the arrangement is. Right. But the person sending the message has to understand that all you can do is send the message to the other person that you can time it better. You can look at the status and go, okay, I shouldn't expect an answer in the next few minutes because she's busy. Take that off your plate. You've asked the question, go do something else.

00:04:44:20 - 00:05:00:06
Wayne Turmel
You're not sitting there drumming your fingers waiting for an answer. The second part of this equation, though, is the person dealing with the incoming messages. And we have talked about this before. We train people how to work with us.

00:05:00:14 - 00:05:04:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes, I had to learn the hard way. Yes.

00:05:04:07 - 00:05:28:21
Wayne Turmel
If you can't be bothered putting your out of office message, don't be surprised that people send you messages. Right. And because they see that you're there now, it takes them off that you're not responding. If you struggle with, okay, I'm going to be good. I've put my do not disturb on. I've left a status, says I'm busy for the next hour.

00:05:29:02 - 00:05:38:00
Wayne Turmel
But there's a lot of messages coming in. If you don't have the discipline to ignore that, then put on pause notifications.

00:05:38:23 - 00:05:55:05
Marisa Eikenberry
And that's part of the reason why I do that so much. And like I said, maybe I should be doing that at lunch because I know me and when my phone and my watch start digging, I start freaking out and maybe Nick is the same way that I am. And so, you know, it's like, hey, like I'm eating right now.

00:05:55:08 - 00:06:00:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Even though when you send me a message, you don't expect a response immediately because you know that I'm at lunch.

00:06:01:02 - 00:06:15:08
Wayne Turmel
Well, and even when you're there, I very often not that I am the patron saint of responsible communication, but I will preface it with, Hey, I don't need this answer right now.

00:06:15:13 - 00:06:16:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Right or no, But.

00:06:16:21 - 00:06:23:11
Wayne Turmel
When you get a chance, no rush. I will preface that so that I'm not adding to your stress.

00:06:24:02 - 00:06:26:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. And I appreciate that.

00:06:26:06 - 00:06:46:09
Wayne Turmel
Well, but it's called respectful communication. Right. So it's not the fault. It's not entirely the fault of the person sending the message. Right. Assuming that we have the discussion about when somebody has their do not disturb up, don't expect an answer.

00:06:46:13 - 00:06:49:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Right? Yeah, they may know one thing.

00:06:49:02 - 00:07:15:01
Wayne Turmel
If you get one. Consider yourself lucky, but. Right. That's not necessarily something that you should expect. And then it's incumbent on us to live our values. If one of those values is Don't bother me during lunch. You can put up your do not disturb or better yet, pause your notification. And what Slack does, which I love Teams, doesn't allow you to do it quite as easily, is you can put in a status.

00:07:15:06 - 00:07:16:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. I love that.

00:07:16:23 - 00:07:23:09
Wayne Turmel
Like, I'm going out. You know, when we're finished recording this, I'm taking my bride to lunch today.

00:07:23:19 - 00:07:24:09
Marisa Eikenberry
That's awesome.

00:07:24:10 - 00:07:38:04
Wayne Turmel
If I just. You. Yeah, but if I just use the little lunch icon people come in the house, Maybe I'm sitting at my desk. I will say when I leave here today, out for lunch, be back at X, have my phone with me.

00:07:38:11 - 00:07:39:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I want for.

00:07:39:09 - 00:07:44:11
Wayne Turmel
Training that message. There is no confusion over whether people should be expecting answers from me.

00:07:44:15 - 00:07:45:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:07:45:17 - 00:08:01:22
Wayne Turmel
So it takes just as it takes two to tango. It takes two to talk to each other over the messages. So it's not just that people ignore the slack messages, although they do. We can also control how much that tortures us.

00:08:02:13 - 00:08:12:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. And and we're always going to get the outlier every now and then. That's not going to see it. And there's nothing that they can do at all that you just it's just a part of work.

00:08:12:18 - 00:08:18:13
Wayne Turmel
Okay. I'm going to say something, and this is only between you and me and whoever happens to be listening to this.

00:08:19:00 - 00:08:19:14
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay.

00:08:19:20 - 00:08:22:18
Wayne Turmel
Some people are idiots.

00:08:24:00 - 00:08:24:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes.

00:08:26:08 - 00:08:32:05
Wayne Turmel
You can't manage to the exception, but you can recognize that exceptions exist.

00:08:32:22 - 00:08:54:13
Marisa Eikenberry
100%. And speaking of people who don't allow for exceptions, I'm going to move on to our next pet peeve from Nola Simon, who said “People who always insist on having cameras on.” I presume this is not just on one on one meetings. I know we've had a lot of conversation about how if you can put your cameras on during one on one meetings, it does help.

00:08:54:13 - 00:09:05:01
Marisa Eikenberry
It enriches the experience. But I assume she's also talking about even in like town hall type meetings where you and I have talked about, you know, you may not necessarily want your camera on.

00:09:05:23 - 00:09:32:00
Wayne Turmel
Here's the thing. And part a lot of this discussion comes from the history with your history with the other person. So, for example, I in the early days of my being in this business, I would say things like turn your camera on. And people would say to me with a perfectly straight face, they just want to see me on camera so they can make sure I'm working.

00:09:32:05 - 00:09:54:01
Wayne Turmel
Oh, good Lord, if that is your culture, right? If you believe that your leadership thinks like that or worse, your leadership actually thinks like that, there is no sane way to have this conversation. It's just going to be ugly and weird and stressful. I prefer whenever possible to be on camera because I want to see the person I'm talking to.

00:09:54:05 - 00:10:19:20
Wayne Turmel
I also understand that there are times when that is not ideal. Nobody needs to see you walking the dog. Yes, you can put your camera on and do zoom while you're walking the dog. But does that really add value? No. And by the way, it's making me a little queasy. You know, I just got back from the gym and I look like, heck or in my case, and I have told people this, you know this.

00:10:19:21 - 00:10:47:10
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. Yes. I will meet with you at 6:00 in the morning my time, because that's convenient for you. Do not expect to see my smiling face. I am not going to be showered. I am not going to be presentable. I mean, tomorrow morning hours. Our team meeting is at 7 a.m. my time. I will have my camera on, but I'm going to have my baseball cap on a shirt and I am not going to be shiny and happy and gorgeous for me.

00:10:47:14 - 00:10:49:18
Wayne Turmel
And you don't expect me to right?

00:10:49:18 - 00:11:07:10
Marisa Eikenberry
You and I have had conversations sometimes where you call the meeting early because I usually don't try to schedule anything with you super early. But you know, you need me for something to tech issue whatever it is and you'll tell me, Hey, I'm not going to have my camera on. And usually if you don't have yours on, I don't have mine on either because I feel like it's weird, but that's just me.

00:11:07:20 - 00:11:09:01
Wayne Turmel
Now, here's the thing.

00:11:09:07 - 00:11:09:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay?

00:11:09:21 - 00:11:27:23
Wayne Turmel
If there is a history of I never want to put my camera on, I don't ever want to be seen, that's a red flag for me that says to me, why not? And if your answer is a why, I don't want to. Not a good enough answer.

00:11:27:23 - 00:11:28:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:11:29:03 - 00:11:37:15
Wayne Turmel
I am prepared to work with you. Right. If it's lunchtime, you don't want to see me munching on it, doing a fish sandwich. Nobody wants to see that. Fine.

00:11:38:02 - 00:11:38:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:11:38:13 - 00:11:45:08
Wayne Turmel
A lot of times in meetings, people will put their camera on to say hello. And then once the meeting starts, the camera goes off.

00:11:45:11 - 00:11:46:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I've seen that a lot.

00:11:47:02 - 00:12:06:05
Wayne Turmel
That's fine. There are very few, thou shalt. Now, our rule in general is the richer the conversation, the more you want the webcam function. Right. So if we're having a team meeting, does it matter that you see me in the little box in the corner? Probably not.

00:12:06:17 - 00:12:07:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:12:07:10 - 00:12:27:14
Wayne Turmel
Matter of fact, the longer the meeting goes on, the less I want you to see me because my eyes are rolling and my phone and I'm doing things right. Doing. But the people speaking should be visible. That's actually true. And if I am participating, if I'm having thing, my camera comes on and people can see me, that's kind of the way it should work.

00:12:28:01 - 00:12:35:15
Wayne Turmel
But with large meetings, group meetings, it's not that important. If you and I are having a coaching conversation.

00:12:35:23 - 00:12:37:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Oh yeah, totally.

00:12:37:00 - 00:12:46:12
Wayne Turmel
We're having our one on one. I want to see your face. The smaller the group, the more intimate the discussion, the more that matters.

00:12:46:15 - 00:13:13:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, it's interesting that you say this, because I know I mean, we have people on our team. I won't name names that not that they don't want to have cameras on, like, ever. But it's like typically they just prefer not to. I'm used to those people. And so, like, I know that if I talk to, you know, Guy, typically it's over the phone or typically it's an audio only slack huddle or something like that, you know?

00:13:13:10 - 00:13:18:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Whereas I know that if I get on a call with you, unless you say otherwise, I'm turning my camera on.

00:13:18:22 - 00:13:52:10
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, my default is that, you know, I'm going to have I'm going to have my camera on and I want to talk to you. But I had a sales call this morning. We did it on teams myself and the client. I was on camera. The client knows how to use teams. He understands that there's a camera there. He chose not to do it like any you're any time you're communicating with other people, you have to think about how Rich does this communication need to be?

00:13:52:10 - 00:14:09:07
Wayne Turmel
How what are the states how rich is this communication? How do I fulfill my part of the bargain? You know, I don't think we've ever talked on the show about the 51% rule, which is in any communication. You own 51% of the responsibility.

00:14:09:22 - 00:14:11:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay. That makes sense.

00:14:11:03 - 00:14:16:14
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. You're both responsible for the communication working out. You should own just a little bit more.

00:14:16:20 - 00:14:22:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, Because if we both come in with that attitude, like, how rich is the communication now? There you.

00:14:22:07 - 00:14:36:02
Wayne Turmel
Go. Both people are taking responsibility. It's all good. And that's the thing. Why are people not turning their cameras on if it's because they're worried the NSA is listening? I have very little patience for that.

00:14:36:12 - 00:14:37:02
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:14:37:17 - 00:14:55:23
Wayne Turmel
You know, people aren't always in the right location or have the best lighting. You know, if you happen to be physically in a place and you're not set up for web communication and you've got the light behind you, you look like the mystery witness on 60 Minutes.

00:14:56:07 - 00:14:56:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Right?

00:14:57:14 - 00:14:59:16
Wayne Turmel
Then there's no value in you being on camera.

00:14:59:23 - 00:15:16:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Or you might be in a situation where, you know, your bandwidth is not great. I know I had that issue a lot last year. You know, I was in a place where my phone was my hotspot and it was like, I can get on a meeting with you, but I can't turn on my camera. And I made sure to communicate with that.

00:15:16:03 - 00:15:17:04
Marisa Eikenberry
And you guys knew that?

00:15:17:16 - 00:15:40:06
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, there are. There are government agencies that I've done training with that I'm on camera because I'm the trainer, but I know they can't do it or the network is just going to crash and teams is going to malfunction and it's going to get weird. So really talk to the person that you're communicating with. Does it matter that cameras are involved?

00:15:40:06 - 00:15:47:21
Wayne Turmel
Does it not? If you're not using your camera, why not? And understand the impact of using or not using it.

00:15:48:09 - 00:16:03:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, just like with anything that we talk about communication, you have to communicate with your people, talk about the situation. So, Wayne, thank you so much for talking about some of these pet peeves. I can't wait to get through some of these other ones that have been sent to us.

00:16:03:22 - 00:16:05:07
Wayne Turmel
And there are some beauties.

00:16:05:17 - 00:16:28:17
Marisa Eikenberry
There are some good ones like some of these are going to get juicy. And if you have a pet peeve that you would like us to talk about, absolutely let us know. Wherever you're watching, if you're watching this on YouTube, put it in a comment. If you're on our blog, put it in the comment there. But overall, listeners, thank you for listening to the Long-Distance Worklife for shownotes, transcripts and other resources.

00:16:28:22 - 00:16:49:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Make sure to visit longdistanceworklife.com. If you haven't yet subscribe to the podcast, you won't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, be sure to like and review. This helps us know what you love about our show. Feel free to contact us via email or LinkedIn with the links in our show notes. Let us know you listened to this episode or suggest a pet peeve or a future topic for Wayne, and I to attack on a future episode.

00:16:50:06 - 00:17:16:05
Marisa Eikenberry
If you'd like to learn more about remote teams, order Wayne and Kevin Eikenberry's new book, The Long-Distance Team. You can learn more about the book at LongDistanceTeamBook.com. Thanks for joining us. And as Wayne likes to say, don't let the weasels get you down.