Ask Wayne Anything, Leadership

Managers Are the Heart of an Organization

Marisa Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel delve into the vital role of managers as the heart of an organization. Wayne introduces the analogy of a heart, explaining how managers serve as the crucial link between senior leadership and their teams. They discuss the flow of information, the importance of effective communication, and the challenges faced by middle managers in maintaining trust and authenticity. Wayne emphasizes the need for transparency, honesty, and gathering accurate information to fulfill the role effectively. He shares insights on navigating the delicate balance between supporting decisions and expressing personal disagreements, all while ensuring the smooth functioning of the organization. Tune in to gain valuable insights and practical tips for middle managers aiming to create a strong heartbeat within their teams and organizations.

Key Takeaways

1. Managers are the heartbeat of an organization: The analogy of a heart highlights the critical role managers play in processing and communicating information between senior leadership and their teams.
2. Gather accurate information: Managers should actively seek information from both above and below to ensure they have a comprehensive understanding of the organization and can effectively communicate it to their teams.
3. Transparency and authenticity build trust: Being honest about what you know, what you don't know, and the assumptions being made fosters trust within the team and reduces the risk of being seen as deceptive.
4. Communicate decisions with clarity: Even if managers personally disagree with certain decisions, it is their responsibility to communicate them clearly and provide the rationale behind them to maintain trust and credibility.
5. Balance between supporting decisions and expressing personal opinions: Managers must strike a delicate balance between aligning with leadership decisions and expressing their personal disagreements, all while maintaining their role as effective communicators and leaders.
6. Effective communication is essential in remote and hybrid teams: In virtual work environments, managers must be intentional about communication, actively seeking and sharing information, and leveraging transparent communication channels to ensure the smooth flow of information.

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Introduction
00:00:46 - Managers as the heartbeat of an organization.
00:02:18 - Importance of effective communication and processing information.
00:03:22 - Navigating the balance between upper management and the team.
00:05:06 - The challenge of supporting decisions one may personally disagree with.
00:06:15 - Being honest about what you don't know and avoiding making things up.
00:08:06 - Importance of transparency and authenticity in maintaining trust.
00:09:24 - Being honest about what you know and don't know to avoid damaging trust.
00:12:00 - Challenges of being a middle manager and delivering difficult news.
00:13:06 - Actionable step for middle managers: Gathering accurate information.
00:15:46 - Balancing support for decisions with personal opinions.
00:16:24 - Recap of the heartbeat analogy and the importance of managers in organizations.

Related Episodes

Additional Resources

Order The Long-Distance Team

Remote leadership experts, Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel, help leaders navigate the new world of remote and hybrid teams to design the culture they desire for their teams and organizations in their new book!

 Order

View Full Transcript

00:00:07:21 - 00:00:18:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Welcome back to The Long-Distance Worklife where we help you lead, work and thrive on remote and hybrid teams. I'm Marisa Eikenberry, a fellow remote worker. And joining me is my co-host and remote work expert, Wayne Turmel. Hi.

00:00:18:18 - 00:00:20:09
Wayne Turmel
Hi, Marisa. How the heck are you?

00:00:20:12 - 00:00:22:04
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm great. How are you?

00:00:22:06 - 00:00:25:22
Wayne Turmel
I am well. I am well. I'm looking forward to our discussion today.

00:00:26:03 - 00:00:46:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. So today we're actually going to talk about a subject that Wayne mentioned in a previous episode about managers are the heartbeat of an organization. I'd never heard that before. And we definitely decided this is going to be a highlight. That could be its own episode. So we're going to talk about it today. So, Wayne, let's just start with what did you mean by managers are the heartbeat of an organization?

00:00:46:02 - 00:00:54:13
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, I don't mean it, although I suppose it could have some of that in an Oprah soft and mushy kind of way.

00:00:54:15 - 00:00:55:08
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay.

00:00:55:09 - 00:01:04:00
Wayne Turmel
I actually am not talking about like, a Valentine heart. I'm talking about a Grey’s Anatomy. Hold it in your hand during surgery kind of heart.

00:01:04:02 - 00:01:07:04
Marisa Eikenberry
Cristina Yang is about to operate. Yeah. Okay.

00:01:07:06 - 00:01:34:11
Wayne Turmel
So here's here's the thing. Think about what a heart does. Right. It's in your chest. And blood comes from different parts of the body, and it goes into the heart and it gets oxygenated and processed and then sent back out to the rest of the body. That's what managers do. Okay. We have information coming in from senior leadership.

00:01:34:11 - 00:01:47:01
Wayne Turmel
We have directions. We have guidance. We have marching orders. Right. And it's got to come down and we need to process that information and send it out to our teams.

00:01:47:03 - 00:01:48:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. That makes sense.

00:01:48:07 - 00:02:18:08
Wayne Turmel
Conversely, it comes from our team. We process it and it is our job to send it out to the senior leadership. All of this communication travels through what people sneeringly call middle managers, but it's what we do. And think about it. If one of those lines of communication, if had those arteries gets clogged.

00:02:18:10 - 00:02:21:04
Marisa Eikenberry
What happens? Yeah, you're going to have Rob.

00:02:21:06 - 00:02:45:16
Wayne Turmel
You're going to have a problem. And so I thought of this image. There are a few things that throughout my career I've kind of been, Oh, I liked that one. And this is one of them. Right. This notion of the manager as the heart and what it does, if you break that down to what we do, it means that there are responsibilities that we have.

00:02:45:17 - 00:02:59:14
Wayne Turmel
Right? One of those responsibilities is to make sure that we are oxygenating and processing right stuff just doesn't come from one part of the body shoot through the heart. Now the risk value is added.

00:02:59:16 - 00:03:00:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Or we would hope.

00:03:00:23 - 00:03:17:04
Wayne Turmel
One would hope, right? Oxygen gets added, stuff gets sent to the lungs for expulsion, all of that stuff. But it's up to us to process filter oxygen, aid the information. And that's both ways upstream and downstream, of course.

00:03:17:04 - 00:03:22:13
Marisa Eikenberry
So I guess how do you avoid feeling like you're like in a vise between upper management and your team?

00:03:22:15 - 00:03:44:23
Wayne Turmel
Well, this is the the thing, right? When we talk about middle managers, you are kind of stuck in between. And where this this manifests itself in a number of ways. One and this is particularly true on remote teams where you can't always pick up the vibe in the office.

00:03:45:01 - 00:03:46:00
Marisa Eikenberry
That makes sense.

00:03:46:02 - 00:04:22:02
Wayne Turmel
Right. Senior leadership has no clue what's going on out in the field. Right. A case like that. And so it is our job to sometimes tackle uncomfortable situations. We need to actively solicit information from the field so that we're getting good information so that we are passing accurate data about what's going on. Right. Both data and attitude. And how are they doing and don't they how are they feeling and all of that.

00:04:22:04 - 00:04:56:06
Wayne Turmel
We need to pass that on. We also very often get uncomfortable news or things that are unpleasant and we need to process that and send that out right to the field. And the thing about being a manager, if we're really honest, is that we don't always agree with or even understand some of the decisions and things that are happening.

00:04:56:10 - 00:05:06:08
Wayne Turmel
And yet it is our job to communicate, enforce, try to get people to engage with whatever the marching orders are.

00:05:06:09 - 00:05:09:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, we almost have to feel like we support it, even if we don't.

00:05:10:00 - 00:05:38:21
Wayne Turmel
And that is the single hardest thing. I mean, in my career, more than once I have known that bad news is coming and being told, Share this and you will be added to the list of people who will be gone. Gotcha. That's a very common situation that as a manager you have access to information that people don't have and you are actually not allowed to share it.

00:05:38:23 - 00:05:54:16
Wayne Turmel
So it can be hard to do that and maintain trust because you become a mouthpiece for the boss. Right? Right. So you're just a corporate weasel and you don't care about us. No, I really do.

00:05:54:18 - 00:05:57:01
Marisa Eikenberry
And this is what I have to do.

00:05:57:03 - 00:05:59:08
Wayne Turmel
And this is literally the job.

00:05:59:13 - 00:06:15:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, it's the hard part about leadership, right? The stuff that you know, and you might understand why a decision got made, because you have the data of why that decision was made. But other people don't. So they just get mad. Like I said, I mean, even small stuff.

00:06:15:05 - 00:06:20:08
Wayne Turmel
Sure. I mean, you've been in, you know, social groups and things that you might.

00:06:20:13 - 00:06:20:20
Marisa Eikenberry
Also.

00:06:20:22 - 00:06:21:05
Wayne Turmel
I mean.

00:06:21:05 - 00:06:21:19
Marisa Eikenberry
You work.

00:06:21:21 - 00:06:36:12
Wayne Turmel
You work for Kevin. There are times that he tells you everything. Boss is hard and there are times when he tells you what you think you need to know. And there are times when it's none of your darn business.

00:06:36:13 - 00:06:38:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely.

00:06:38:07 - 00:06:52:12
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. That's something that leaders have to get comfortable with in a remote or a hybrid team. Of course, it's harder because you have to work harder to get the information. You have to work harder to make sure that you're getting good information.

00:06:52:16 - 00:07:14:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, be intentional about that communication like we've talked about in previous episodes, talking about like, you know, giving out the information from upper management and stuff and, you know, maybe it's not something that you necessarily feel comfortable with or you, you know, don't disagree with You disagree with that decision. So like, how do you avoid just being a parent for the company when you disagree?

00:07:14:08 - 00:07:41:16
Wayne Turmel
This is where man trust depends so much on authenticity. And I actually have come to appreciate something that I never thought I would appreciate. At the beginning of the Gulf War, Donald Rumsfeld was secretary of state. And if you ever told me, I would agree with anything Donald Rumsfeld ever said, I would fight you. But this happens to be true.

00:07:41:18 - 00:08:06:18
Wayne Turmel
They were asking about, you know, what do we know? Is this going to happen? Is this not going to happen? And the way that he explained it is quite brilliant. He said there are no notes. There are things that we know, Right. Things that we know to be true. There are things that we think we know. There are things that we don't know and there are things we don't know that we don't know.

00:08:06:19 - 00:08:08:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes. Right.

00:08:08:23 - 00:08:26:06
Wayne Turmel
Right. And if you explain it as these are the things that we know, these are the assumptions we're making that may impact how this goes. We don't know what this is going to do. We don't know what this is going to do to our customers.

00:08:26:08 - 00:08:26:20
Marisa Eikenberry
Of course.

00:08:27:01 - 00:08:52:14
Wayne Turmel
Right. If you are honest about what you know, what you don't know what you think you know but can't prove. If you do that, General, really speaking, people will look at you less like you are lying through your teeth. It's very tempting as a leader to put a happy face on everything. And here's we're going and we're positive and we're sure.

00:08:52:14 - 00:08:58:00
Wayne Turmel
And. And what happens is when one of those unknowns.

00:08:58:01 - 00:08:58:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:08:59:00 - 00:09:04:18
Wayne Turmel
Or something that we didn't see coming happens, we look like liars.

00:09:04:20 - 00:09:24:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. Well, and I've always been a big proponent of this idea of like, being honest about what you don't know. I don't know if it's just because I'm a lot younger. I don't know if it's just because I worked in I.T. department for a while after high school. Like, I don't know, literally. But this this concept of, you know, Hey, Marissa, I need to ask you about X, Y, Z.

00:09:24:15 - 00:09:37:05
Marisa Eikenberry
What do you know about it? I don't know. And I'll be honest about it, because I think so many times leaders, we feel like we have to give an answer. So that way we look competent, even though sometimes trying to make something up can get you in trouble.

00:09:37:08 - 00:09:51:20
Wayne Turmel
Well, it does. That's the problem, is, you know, not only are you wrong, which is embarrassing and, you know, makes you lose a little bit of credibility, But if people are already a little bit on edge, it's. No, you lied to us.

00:09:51:22 - 00:09:52:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely.

00:09:53:01 - 00:10:12:22
Wayne Turmel
So we've seen this, for example, in the return to office where people said, no, this is it. This is how this is going to work. Covid's over. Get your butt back into the office. And then we had somebody that we've worked with in the past. They brought everybody back. And two weeks later, COVID ripped through the office and everybody got sent home.

00:10:13:04 - 00:10:14:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:10:14:08 - 00:10:28:00
Wayne Turmel
Right. You told us it was safe. You told us that we had to come back. And now I'm coughing up blood. Right. Right. That's going to damage credibility.

00:10:28:01 - 00:10:29:22
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, it's going to damage trust a lot, too.

00:10:30:00 - 00:11:02:21
Wayne Turmel
And this concept of this concept of what you know, what and being able to share that in a competent, transparent manner that doesn't destroy trust is a very big deal. And it applies to a lot more than just this. It applies to how you work with your team. There's a a wonderful tool called a Johari Window, which is designed to help you uncover biases.

00:11:02:21 - 00:11:21:13
Wayne Turmel
Right. Are you making stuff up? Are you really seeing the world as it is? And we'll probably do an episode on this because it's so important, especially in a remote environment, because there are things, you know, things you don't know. There are things other people know that you don't know. And there are things that none of you know.

00:11:21:16 - 00:11:46:20
Wayne Turmel
Right? Right. It can't go ever. And if you're not really clear on what those are, though, you don't know how to ask the right questions and you don't know how to do how to assess situations and you don't know if it's just you or if everybody feels the same way. But that notion of transparency and honesty and authenticity is really important.

00:11:46:20 - 00:11:57:05
Wayne Turmel
If we go back to the to the heart thing. That's the oxygenation that you're doing. You know, here's the data that we're being given. Here's where this number comes from.

00:11:57:07 - 00:12:00:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Trying to give them an idea of why the decision was made.

00:12:00:09 - 00:12:24:14
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. And Kevin does this extremely well. He shares the numbers and he says, here's what's happening and here's why we think this is happening. But again, here's what's happening is a hard and fast number, right? Here's why we think it's happening is interpretation, which leads to here's what we think that means. And we might be wrong.

00:12:24:15 - 00:12:27:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Of course, that that's going to be true for so many things.

00:12:27:19 - 00:12:46:17
Wayne Turmel
But if we don't do that right, if our heart doesn't do its job, if we as middle managers don't do that job well, we are basically controlling tasks and not adding the value to the process both upstream and downstream that we should.

00:12:46:19 - 00:13:06:20
Marisa Eikenberry
So for middle managers who are listening to this episode right now, maybe they don't feel like they're doing this super well or they know that they could improve on this idea of being the heartbeat of the organization. So what's one thing that they could do today immediately after they stop listening to this episode to set themselves on the path of creating a stronger heartbeat for their organization?

00:13:06:23 - 00:13:28:01
Wayne Turmel
I think it's really start by gathering information, and I think that's both above and below you on the food chain. When you get marching orders, information and data from senior leadership. Ask the questions that you have.

00:13:28:03 - 00:13:29:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah.

00:13:29:03 - 00:13:56:18
Wayne Turmel
Right. Not only the questions that your people are going to have, but what do you as somebody who has a little different view than your direct reports? What are the questions you have and find out is it something they know? Is it something they think they know? Is it right? Because you can't accurately process and translate that? And same thing coming back, right, when you hear things from the team.

00:13:56:20 - 00:14:24:06
Wayne Turmel
Is this a fact? Is this gossip? Is this you need to be able to process and deal with that, which means asking some questions and having some conversations. And that is going to then help you figure out how to communicate in a transparent, authentic way. Now, there's always the problem of here's what I'm being told. I think this sucks, but I have to make you do this right.

00:14:24:10 - 00:14:33:17
Wayne Turmel
Right. And that's a tricky thing to do because you want to keep your job.

00:14:33:19 - 00:14:35:04
Marisa Eikenberry
100%.

00:14:35:06 - 00:14:58:07
Wayne Turmel
Let's let's not kid ourselves. This is we want to remain gainfully employed. And part of being a manager is sometimes you have to deliver crappy news to people. You want to be not throwing the leadership under the bus. Absolutely right. I think this is a terrible idea, but I have to lay five of you off. It might make you feel better.

00:14:58:09 - 00:14:59:20
Marisa Eikenberry
It doesn't change anything for them.

00:14:59:21 - 00:15:21:22
Wayne Turmel
What is not changing and it makes you look ineffective. So, again, here's what I know. Here's what I know to be true. You know, yes, we are having a really bad year and we are losing money, and hard decisions have to be made. There were options. This is the one the company decided to make. And this is where we're going.

00:15:21:23 - 00:15:25:10
Wayne Turmel
Just lay it out. Here's what we know. Here's what we don't know.

00:15:25:12 - 00:15:26:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:15:26:05 - 00:15:46:00
Wayne Turmel
Right. This is where this decision came from. Do not say it's not. It's not me. Because that's very tempting. I remember after some bad news at a place that I worked, and we had to let a couple of people go, and I kept saying, It's not me. I don't want to do this. And they said, Then what good are you?

00:15:46:03 - 00:15:50:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I could see that. Just like, just because it's not you. That doesn't change anything for them.

00:15:50:08 - 00:15:52:20
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. It makes me no less fired. Thank you.

00:15:53:00 - 00:15:53:18
Marisa Eikenberry
Exactly.

00:15:53:20 - 00:16:24:10
Wayne Turmel
So that's when we talk about the heartbeat. It's a it's a cute model. And it's it's a good kind of mnemonic device to think about, but that's what I mean by that. And I really believe it. I think that what we call middle managers are crucial to effective organizations, and only if they add that oxygen and that. Okay, that makes it work.

00:16:24:14 - 00:16:40:22
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. Wayne, thank you so much for talking to us about this. I know you know, we talked about it in a previous episode, so I'm so glad that we finally got a chance to go into it and see like, what is this really mean? And listeners, thank you so much for listening to the Long-Distance Worklife. For shownotes, transcripts, and other resources

00:16:41:02 - 00:17:00:02
Marisa Eikenberry
make sure to visit longdistanceworklife.com. If you haven't yet, subscribe to the podcast so you won’t miss any future episodes. While you're there, be sure to like and review. This helps us know what you love about our show. Feel free to contact us via email or LinkedIn with the links in our shownotes. Let us know you listened to this episode or even suggest a topic for Wayne and I to tackle in a future episode.

00:17:00:03 - 00:17:13:05
Marisa Eikenberry
We'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to learn more about remote teams, order Wayne and Kevin Eikenberry’s new book, The Long-Distance Team. You can learn more about the book at LongDistanceTeamBook.com. Thanks for joining us. And as Wayne like to say, don't let the weasels get you down.

Read More
Guests, Surviving Remote Work, Working Remotely

Strategies for Career Growth in a Remote Work Era with Catherine Morgan

Wayne Turmel and Catherine Morgan, a career transition expert, delve into the dynamic and ever-changing world of work, offering valuable insights on how to navigate the evolving landscape and stay employed. Drawing on her extensive industry experience, Catherine shares expert advice on career planning and remote work. They explore the transformations in recruitment and hiring practices over recent years and provide actionable strategies for managing one's career effectively. Catherine emphasizes the importance of staying abreast of the latest trends and technologies, maintaining motivation, and embracing flexibility. She highlights the significance of seizing opportunities for professional development and networking, while also encouraging listeners to create a well-defined plan for career growth and embrace calculated risks. Additionally, they discuss the impact of the pandemic on work dynamics, challenging traditional mindsets, and advocating for individuals to carve their own paths. This episode offers practical guidance on remote work advantages, future-proofing careers, nurturing professional relationships, and finding the balance between personal goals and organizational responsibilities.

Key Takeaways

1. Embrace change and be adaptable: In today's rapidly evolving work environment, it's crucial to be open to change, stay flexible, and continuously update your skills to remain employable.
2. Take ownership of your career: Instead of relying solely on employers for career progression, adopt a self-employed mindset and proactively plan and drive your own career growth.
3. Stay up to date with technology and trends: Keeping yourself knowledgeable about the latest technologies and industry trends is essential to stay competitive and relevant in the evolving job market.
4. Build and nurture your network: Actively engage in professional networking, both within and outside your organization, to forge relationships, expand opportunities, and stay connected in the remote work era.
5. Be entrepreneurial in your approach: Even if you have a secure job, approach your work with an entrepreneurial mindset, seeking innovative solutions, taking calculated risks, and continuously seeking ways to add value to your organization.
6. Prioritize communication and relationship-building in remote work: Proactively schedule virtual interactions, such as coffees and one-on-ones, with colleagues to maintain relationships, foster collaboration, and combat the potential isolation of remote work.
7. Find the balance between personal aspirations and organizational goals: Understand your job function and evaluate how it can be effectively performed remotely, adapting your skills and job functions accordingly while still aligning with the goals of the company.
8. Mindset matters: Challenge traditional mindsets inherited from upbringing and culture, and recognize that the old notion of lifelong loyalty to a single company is no longer the norm, empowering yourself to create the career you desire.

timestamps

00:00:00 Career Planning and Remote Work
00:02:08 Career Reinvention in the Post-Pandemic World
00:04:24 Career Futureproofing and Remote Work
00:08:18 Balancing Entrepreneurial Career Goals with Company Needs
00:11:41 Working Remotely and Improving Communication Skills
00:16:19 Benefits of Business Writing Bootcamp and Video Emails
00:17:58 Career Transition and Business Consulting

Featured Guest

Name: Catherine Morgan

What She Does: Career Transition Expert

Notable: Catherine Altman Morgan is the author of the #1 New Release This Isn’t Working! Evolving the Way We Work to Decrease Stress, Anxiety, and Depression. Catherine is a career transition expert, business consultant, and the founder of Point A to Point B Transitions Inc., named Career Transition Coaching Service of the Year, as part of the Corporate LiveWire Innovation & Excellence Awards 2021 and 2022, and Most Innovative Career Transition Coach - North America, as part of Corporate Coaching and Recruitment Awards 2021 and 2022 by Corporate Vision. The company is a virtual provider of coaching services to professionals in career transition and solo consultants.  

Additional Resources

Order The Long-Distance Team

Remote leadership experts, Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel, help leaders navigate the new world of remote and hybrid teams to design the culture they desire for their teams and organizations in their new book!

 Order

View Full Transcript

00:00:08:03 - 00:00:37:22
Wayne Turmel
Hi, everybody. Greetings. Welcome back to the Long Distance Worklife podcast. My name is Wayne Turmel. We are here to talk about all things remote. Hybrid work generally help you keep the weasels at bay and thrive and survive in this crazy, evolving world of work. Marisa is not with me today, alas, but that's not a bad thing because we have a very special guest.

00:00:39:04 - 00:01:03:06
Wayne Turmel
Catherine Morgan is joining us from Chicago. Catherine and I go back a ways and she is really, really smart when it comes to things like career planning and trying to figure out what you want to be when you grow up and all of those kinds of things. And that's what we're going to talk about today, is are you ready for remote work?

00:01:03:09 - 00:01:18:19
Wayne Turmel
How do you not let your career wither on the vine when you are in the office sucking up to everybody? And I'm paraphrasing, of course, and stuff like that. So. Catherine, hi. Welcome back.

00:01:19:01 - 00:01:20:09
Catherine Morgan
Well, thanks for having me.

00:01:21:05 - 00:01:33:06
Wayne Turmel
As always, thank you for being had. So here is the deal. I don't say this as it's going to come out of my face. You've been at this a while.

00:01:33:12 - 00:01:43:10
Catherine Morgan
It can't happen at an while on this spectrum of not experienced. Very experienced. I'm on this very experienced side of the spectrum.

00:01:44:07 - 00:02:06:17
Wayne Turmel
And the world of recruiting and hiring and staying employed and all of that good stuff has changed. I mean, certainly over the last three years when it was changing for a while before that. What have you seen in terms of people managing careers? What's kind of changed dramatically?

00:02:08:00 - 00:02:37:14
Catherine Morgan
Literally everything. The conversations I have with people in 2019 and the conversations I'm having now are utterly different. The pandemic blew up all the rules. Whatever you thought the rules were, I can't change job functions. I can't work remotely. I can't change careers. I can't work flexible time. I can't like all these camps doesn't exist anymore. The only rule is there is no rules.

00:02:38:15 - 00:03:05:15
Catherine Morgan
So what I found is people more or less can create whatever it is they want to create as long as they actually want it. So when they're not going after the knee jerk response, I should be doing this. They can create within reason. Like I'm not going to be a ballerina. But other than that, white collar professional workers can reinvent themselves, can work on site, can work remotely, can work hybrid, whatever your thing is, you can mostly make that happen.

00:03:07:19 - 00:03:16:03
Wayne Turmel
It sounds like what you're telling me, that the biggest barrier up until now has been mindset.

00:03:16:19 - 00:03:17:14
Catherine Morgan
Absolutely.

00:03:18:22 - 00:03:31:11
Wayne Turmel
How much of that is just getting our air inside of our head and how much of that has legitimately changed? And we just haven't caught up with the reality yet.

00:03:32:03 - 00:03:55:20
Catherine Morgan
Okay. Some of it is parents, family of origin, culture or how we were raised, especially people, you know, on our side of the spectrum, because the world of work has changed tremendously. When I started working, you sort of landed somewhere and you were expected to stay X number of years and get promoted and maybe spend your whole career.

00:03:55:21 - 00:04:24:14
Catherine Morgan
There are some people I graduated from college actually did spend their whole career at one company. Now that's almost unheard of. So it is a function of that. And the other thing is to ignore the fear monitoring and that advice that is ubiquitous on the Internet. I tell my coaching clients to put their fingers in their ears and go, la la la la la la.

00:04:24:14 - 00:04:30:07
Catherine Morgan
For all the fear mongering, it's just not helpful and it doesn't have to apply to you.

00:04:31:01 - 00:04:54:18
Wayne Turmel
Okay, so let's start with what are they afraid of? I mean, yeah, I know change is scary and that's kind of being a grown up one and one. But are there specific things that especially if they're making that change to remote work they are most concerned about?

00:04:54:21 - 00:05:26:15
Catherine Morgan
Yeah, they're concerned that they will be lost in the shuffle. They are concerned about communication. And I read recently that, you know, a lot of the problems with remote work or technology related and I'm going to say then you're working for a stupid company, like we should have the technology part out of enabling people to work remotely. See also 2020 and 2021, that really shouldn't be the issue.

00:05:27:00 - 00:05:42:02
Catherine Morgan
Although the individual may have some questions about their ability to learn the technology or master it or feel that they can compete with younger workers who grew up with this. So there might be some of that mindset shift.

00:05:42:08 - 00:06:17:10
Wayne Turmel
So you said something a moment ago, communication. How am I going to communicate with people is obviously important, But you said something a moment ago about being connected, which is more than just how am I going to talk to people? Right. It's do I know what's going on? Do I know You know what I mean? The careers are built on things like networking and mentoring and hallway gossip that tells you, hey, there's an opening down the hall and sorts of things.

00:06:18:20 - 00:06:25:12
Wayne Turmel
What? Let's get down into it. It's like if I'm trying to futureproof my career.

00:06:26:01 - 00:06:26:09
Catherine Morgan
Right?

00:06:27:02 - 00:06:28:18
Wayne Turmel
What do I need to do?

00:06:29:23 - 00:07:05:23
Catherine Morgan
You need to own the fact that you are essentially self. I don't care who you're getting a paycheck from. If you think of yourself as being self-employed and you are responsible for your career, not human resources, not your manager, nobody's responsible for your career but you. So, yes, absolute keeping your network warm even when you're working, keeping your technology skills up to date, having your own learning plan or and project, managing your own career progression that you would like.

00:07:06:04 - 00:07:28:17
Catherine Morgan
Nobody is going to do it for you. We're all exhausted, overworked, busy. Maybe there are a few enlightened companies that really do invest in their talent and want to keep them there and engaged and growing. But that is not the norm. If you own it and you take responsibility for that, you're going to have a much better career and essentially, in your words, futureproof yourself.

00:07:29:12 - 00:07:49:23
Wayne Turmel
I love that you said something that match, and I love when people agree with me that makes me very happy. And I've been saying for a very long time, like my entire career, that you have to have this entrepreneurial approach even when you have a nice, safe, internal job.

00:07:50:10 - 00:07:50:18
Catherine Morgan
Yes.

00:07:51:10 - 00:08:16:18
Wayne Turmel
And when you work remotely, of course, there are some pretty substantial differences in how do you do things like have hallway conversations and overhear job openings and all that stuff that happens organically and by osmosis around the coffee machine. How do you do that when you work somewhere else?

00:08:18:03 - 00:08:44:21
Catherine Morgan
I think that you would have to understand that that's less likely to happen organically, although, you know, in a Slack channel or whatever technology companies used to facilitate that show up, you will get out what you put in. So if you're lurking, just waiting for somebody else to reach out to you or just start the conversation, that may or may not happen, you can be a bit more proactive about that.

00:08:45:08 - 00:09:14:05
Catherine Morgan
Also, scheduling time in your calendar to have virtual coffees with people and it will fall off your plate because everybody's busy. If it's not in your calendar, you'll forget to follow up. You'll have every intention of doing it, but it won't happen. So being very hands on with how you're going to maintain these relationships internally, that be one on ones with your boss that you're tempted to reschedule because there's really nothing to talk about.

00:09:14:12 - 00:09:34:19
Catherine Morgan
No. Have those conversations. And maybe you're not talking about work, but maybe you're getting to know each other's goals, aspirations. You're just better as humans, so you're cementing the relationship. We haven't gotten to it yet, but one of the concerns that people have is if I'm remote, I'm going to be forgotten. And then if hard decisions have to be made.

00:09:35:01 - 00:09:56:17
Catherine Morgan
Nobody's going to raise their hand to protect me. And that's a real thing. So you need to make sure that people know who you are and know your best skills and know your ambitions and know how you contribute. Not to be the jerk with the megaphone to blow your own horn, but but just to ensure as much as one can in these crazy times.

00:09:56:21 - 00:09:57:20
Catherine Morgan
Your longevity.

00:09:58:14 - 00:10:20:01
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. In the long distance team, we call that ethical visibility, you know. How do you do that without looking like a self-serving weasel? Right. There's two things that I want to touch on, and this one is going to catch you off guard a little bit, because it just occurred to me, how do you balance? It's part of the same conversation.

00:10:20:07 - 00:10:44:15
Wayne Turmel
How do you balance being entrepreneurial about your career in your work and having a legitimate concern for the company that you work for? What I'm hearing from a lot of employers is people have gotten very selfish and self-serving and they don't want to come back to the office because they don't want to do it and they don't care what the company is saying.

00:10:45:03 - 00:11:00:00
Wayne Turmel
And how do you let the company know that while you are taking care of yourself, you also care about them and doing a good job and yeah.

00:11:00:17 - 00:11:08:08
Catherine Morgan
This is a it's an onion. We're going to peel the layers off and it's going to get a little stinky as we get to the middle. And it's.

00:11:08:08 - 00:11:09:08
Wayne Turmel
Going to make me cry.

00:11:09:17 - 00:11:41:09
Catherine Morgan
Because. Because what's the real issue here? There's some command and control. There's some habit. There are some job functions that legitimately make more sense to have internally. Okay, So maybe those don't go remote or maybe they're sort of pseudo hybrid and you can take some time and work remote occasionally. That's fine. That's the job function you chose. And if remote work is important to you, then you'll change your skills and get something that's more agreeable to that.

00:11:41:15 - 00:11:49:23
Catherine Morgan
Okay, fine. B The other part is I lost the question.

00:11:50:09 - 00:12:03:10
Wayne Turmel
Well, just how do you let your boss, the organization, know that while you might be ambitious and assertive and all that good stuff, you care about them too?

00:12:04:06 - 00:12:26:20
Catherine Morgan
Oh, yeah. You know what? I think? Once again, communication isn't just one way to the employee. Communication is two ways back to the manager. So if if you're trying to get your job remote or to have people understand that you really are not network watching Netflix while you're doing your work, you can, you know, ensure that the deadlines are done.

00:12:26:20 - 00:12:46:08
Catherine Morgan
You can create weekly status reports, you can proactively manage on what you're doing. So they don't think that you're just your goofing off, looking for your next opportunity or starting your side hustle. And you may be doing all of that, but you should also be covering your butt and proactively communicating.

00:12:48:18 - 00:13:16:15
Wayne Turmel
Now, in your coaching practice and we're going to give you a chance at the end of this to do a little public service announcement about what you do. And we will have links to Catherine and her company in the show notes. I promise. What skills? When we talk about skilling up and getting good at things, what skills do people who are working more remote and not need to build up?

00:13:16:15 - 00:13:26:22
Wayne Turmel
What are we really bad at and what should we be working on in order to be successful?

00:13:27:13 - 00:13:53:19
Catherine Morgan
Well, I can tell you from my personal experience, if it's not on my calendar, it doesn't exist. So just the manual keeping things on your calendar and putting constraints and breaks and all your meetings so that you know what you have to do because this can be very distracting. You could clean your closet, you could be doing laundry, you could be doing a bunch of things.

00:13:53:19 - 00:14:20:01
Catherine Morgan
But if you know what you have to do, accountability is probably helpful, too. If you're one of those people who's just distracted. Squirrel, you might need an accountability buddy within the organization or outside where you say, Here's the three things I'm going to get done today. We are so much more likely to get the things we need to get done if we tell somebody that I'm sure you've seen that same study I have everybody quotes.

00:14:20:14 - 00:14:46:01
Catherine Morgan
So so that that could be it. And I think self-knowledge, you know, knowing your own rhythms and foibles and being gentle with yourself about that because I don't know about you, but I'm not perfect. So knowing where you might go off the rails and putting some guardrails in place could be helpful. What would you add?

00:14:47:01 - 00:15:13:15
Wayne Turmel
I have my hobby horses, you know, I have things that I just beat on. One of the things that that I'm obsessed with that nobody else shares my obsession, including people who listen to this podcast, who have heard me talk about this, is that since the invention of email, which is basically my career, right? I've been around exactly that long.

00:15:14:04 - 00:15:29:19
Wayne Turmel
70% of our workplace communication takes place in writing. When was the last time any of us consciously did something to improve our writing, our written communication?

00:15:31:04 - 00:15:34:04
Catherine Morgan
I don't know. Senior year of high school? I don't know.

00:15:34:19 - 00:16:01:19
Wayne Turmel
Exactly. So, you know, there are a couple of things. And we talked about this with Roger Corvil in a previous episode about virtual presentation skills. There are a few things 70% of our communication takes place in writing, and yet we receive no training or coaching. We're just expected to know how to do that. Presenting effectively and communicating effectively via webcam.

00:16:02:19 - 00:16:19:08
Wayne Turmel
You know, a few people are still taking traditional presentation skills. When was the last time anybody learned how to present this way? I think the communication tools that we have are only as good as how we use them. So you asked know that?

00:16:19:09 - 00:16:49:00
Catherine Morgan
That's interesting. So as part of our training for being successful in corporate, it would make sense to do a basic business writing bootcamp. And here's how you don't come off passive aggressive or overwhelm people or defensive or, you know, a bunch of things. I don't know about you, but I've been part of email chains that just went sideways and it wasn't pretty and somebody got their feelings hurt so that might be really smart.

00:16:49:00 - 00:16:55:17
Catherine Morgan
I was going to ask you, does sending video emails help? Because where we're talking.

00:16:56:13 - 00:17:23:14
Wayne Turmel
I think sending video, video emails is one of those things that people have been trying to make a thing for 15 years. I remember 15 years ago people trying to sell us these very expensive solutions where you could send video emails and it was like, Oh, this is voodoo Jetsons magic stuff, and now you can do it. You know, you hit record and then you hit send.

00:17:23:14 - 00:17:36:12
Wayne Turmel
And it's not that hard. I think as we start to do more asynchronous work, which is what hybrid depends on, but I think it will eventually be a thing.

00:17:37:00 - 00:17:58:00
Catherine Morgan
Yeah, I wonder if maybe that gets us around some of the email disconnects. If you could read the body language of the person saying you could see that they weren't actually angry at you, they weren't actually frustrated. Maybe we're social animals, so maybe we'd have more of the social cues. I don't know. I'm on the fence about that as well.

00:17:58:00 - 00:18:08:15
Catherine Morgan
I bought a service that wouldn't let me do video emails, but I don't it doesn't have the the zoom judging in it. And every time I see myself on those, I'm like, so?

00:18:09:18 - 00:18:27:02
Wayne Turmel
Well, as with all of these tools, right, there's the tool and you look at it and say, Oh, is this some Yeah, I see how this would work. And then it's Do I actually metaphorically get off my butt and do it? Oh yeah, there's that.

00:18:27:02 - 00:18:29:04
Catherine Morgan
Who's got to solve that to say.

00:18:30:02 - 00:18:53:12
Wayne Turmel
Exactly, Exactly. Catherine, it is so good to talk to you, my friend. We have not chatted in a very long time. Tell folks where can they find you? And we will have links to all of these things in our show notes as well. But how do they find you? What's your company? This is your chance to send your message to the world, or at least the tiny corner of it that listens to us.

00:18:54:06 - 00:19:13:14
Catherine Morgan
Well, I am a career transition expert and business consultant. I recently wrote a book titled This Isn't Working Exclamation Point Evolving the Way We Work to Decrease stress, anxiety and Depression. Because a lot of what's going on in corporate right now isn't working. Yeah, I want to.

00:19:13:14 - 00:19:18:08
Wayne Turmel
Hold up a copy of the book. I, I have an e copy, so it's on my tablet.

00:19:18:16 - 00:19:35:02
Catherine Morgan
But I have a copy so that my website is point eight. The point B transitions dot com. And if you want to track me down, I'm very active on LinkedIn and I'm sure we'll be kind enough to link to my profile.

00:19:35:02 - 00:20:01:09
Wayne Turmel
We will absolutely do that. Catherine, thank you so much. Don't go away because we're going to chat after I'm done, but I need to do a facial show stuff and close off this episode. So we will have show notes to all of Catherine's socials and her book and all of that good stuff. You can find that at long distance work life dot com.

00:20:01:15 - 00:20:26:20
Wayne Turmel
We hope you stop by there if you are looking at how your team works, you may want to well consider Kevin in my new book, The Long Distance Team Designing Your Team for Everyone Success. I too have a hard copy of that one. And if you have enjoyed the show, if you hate the show, if you want to tell us what are your pet peeves?

00:20:26:20 - 00:20:50:04
Wayne Turmel
What are the topics that you want us to discuss? You can reach out to myself or Marisa any time. Wayne@KevinEikenberry.com, Marisa@KevinEikenberry.com. You can find us on LinkedIn and all of that good stuff if you listen to any number of podcasts, you know the drill. Please like and subscribe. Tell your friends.

00:20:50:09 - 00:21:26:11
Wayne Turmel
Word of mouth is most important to us. So if you like us, tell people, if you don't keep your mouth shut, we'd appreciate that. Beyond that, we will be back next week with another episode. My name is Wayne Turmel. For the long distance work life. Stay sane. Don't let the weasels get you down and we will talk to you in the upcoming episode.

Read More
Ask Wayne Anything, Surviving Remote Work, Technology, Working Remotely

Remote Work Rants: Should You Turn Your Camera On for Every Meeting?

Marisa Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel tackle more pet peeves sent in by listeners, including one from @NikSoro about the annoyance of receiving messages without checking someone's Slack status. The hosts discuss strategies for managing notifications, setting boundaries, and communicating effectively in virtual teams. They also delve into a topic from Nola Simon on webcam usage in virtual meetings and explore the psychology behind camera-on versus camera-off meetings. Whether you're a remote worker or a team leader, this episode offers practical advice on how to navigate common communication challenges and build a more productive and supportive virtual work environment. Tune in to learn how to balance availability and focus, manage expectations, and foster respectful communication in your remote team.

Key Takeaways

  1. Checking someone's Slack status before sending a message can help you respect their boundaries and avoid unnecessary interruptions.
  2. Setting boundaries, such as turning off notifications during specific hours or using an icon in your status to indicate when you're away from your desk, can help you manage distractions and increase your productivity.
  3. Respecting others' needs and preferences is essential for building trust and fostering healthy communication in virtual teams.
  4. Using a webcam during virtual meetings can enhance connection and collaboration, but it's important to be mindful of the potential for webcam fatigue and to respect individual preferences for camera-on or camera-off meetings.
  5. Effective communication in virtual teams requires discipline, initiative, and a commitment to living one's values. By setting clear expectations, managing distractions, and respecting others' needs, remote workers and team leaders can build a more productive and supportive virtual work environment.

Timestamps

00:00:00 Intro

00:01:36 When People Don't Check Slack Statuses Before Messaging

00:03:03 Respectful Communication and Responsiveness

00:07:23 Managing Slack Messages and Video Conferencing Pet Peeves

00:08:54 Benefits of Turning On Cameras During Meetings

00:11:07 Importance of Webcam Functionality in Meetings

00:12:35 Coaching Conversation: The 51% Rule

00:14:11 Conclusion

Related Episodes

Additional Resources

Order The Long-Distance Team

Remote leadership experts, Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel, help leaders navigate the new world of remote and hybrid teams to design the culture they desire for their teams and organizations in their new book!

 Order

View Full Transcript

00:00:07:21 - 00:00:18:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Welcome back to the Long-Distance Worklife where we help you lead, work and thrive in remote and hybrid teams. I'm Marisa Eikenberry, a fellow remote worker. And joining me is my co-host and remote work expert Wayne Turmel. How are you doing?

00:00:19:09 - 00:00:32:13
Wayne Turmel
I am well. I am- You know, we hear the word disgruntled, which by definition means that the word must be gruntled. If you are not if you are not disgruntled, you must be gruntled.

00:00:32:14 - 00:00:33:03
Marisa Eikenberry
So are you gruntled?

00:00:33:04 - 00:00:36:09
Wayne Turmel
I’m gruntled today, I am at one with the universe.

00:00:36:16 - 00:00:53:21
Marisa Eikenberry
I love that because we're actually going to be talking about things that tick people off today. Some of you may have listened to our past episode where we talked about pet peeves, and we've decided that that's going to be a series because so many of you set so many pet peeves that we really need to talk about. So we're going to continue with some of the ones that were sent to us.

00:00:54:08 - 00:01:09:03
Marisa Eikenberry
And I'm going to start off with @NikSoro on Twitter sent us one that says, it really makes him mad when people don't check your Slack status before you mess, before they message you. So I'm sure we both have thoughts on that.

00:01:10:04 - 00:01:11:23
Wayne Turmel
Well, I'm kind of curious.

00:01:13:03 - 00:01:13:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah.

00:01:13:10 - 00:01:15:08
Wayne Turmel
What what are your thoughts on that?

00:01:15:22 - 00:01:36:13
Marisa Eikenberry
So for me, I think it depends if, you know, like right now I have a Slack status up and I have my notifications turned off because we're podcasting right now. And so I want our team members to know, “Hey, I will get back to you in an hour.” Like, I just, you know, I don't mind if they're messaging me now because I have the notifications off.

00:01:36:13 - 00:02:01:00
Marisa Eikenberry
I'm not going to see them until it's time to see them. I don't even mind if people send me something that my do not disturb hours because it's very obvious that I'm in, do not disturb, and I will see them when I see them later. So maybe it's just me that isn't quite as bothered by this unless. Unless I have my lunch status on then sometime and maybe this is on me and I should actually shut my notifications off during lunch.

00:02:01:06 - 00:02:10:20
Marisa Eikenberry
But I do put up a lunch Slack status and there are times I get pinged ten or 12 times while it's sitting downstairs with my husband and I'm like, “Oh my God, I'm eating lunch!”

00:02:11:19 - 00:02:13:12
Wayne Turmel
You obviously don't have children.

00:02:14:00 - 00:02:15:04
Marisa Eikenberry
I mean, 100%.

00:02:15:04 - 00:02:40:11
Wayne Turmel
We have we have totally developed the ability to do what we're doing with people nattering at us in the background. What you said is really important, and that's why I wanted it to come from your mouth instead of mine, which is you have told them what the what the deal is. They are free to send messages and you will jolly well get to them when you get to them.

00:02:41:00 - 00:02:52:09
Wayne Turmel
You have the discipline and the ability. And by the way, you've taken the initiative to take your notifications off so you're not getting pinged and dinged and all of that stuff.

00:02:52:12 - 00:02:52:23
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:02:53:10 - 00:03:02:15
Wayne Turmel
All of us are smart enough to know that you are through working with you for any length of time. You are extremely quick to respond if you’re available.

00:03:03:06 - 00:03:03:19
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. As much as I can.

00:03:03:20 - 00:03:27:00
Wayne Turmel
If you are not available, you will respond as quickly as you can. And by the way, when you say I'm not getting notifications, you mean it. Now, does that mean I can't send you a message when you're not getting notifications? No. “Oh, I have a question for Marisa. I'll type the question and send it to her,” knowing that it is now in your inbox and you will get to it when you get to it.

00:03:27:04 - 00:03:33:02
Wayne Turmel
It's off my plate. I don't have to worry about remembering to send it to you later.

00:03:33:04 - 00:03:33:13
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:03:34:07 - 00:03:35:17
Wayne Turmel
Everybody's happy.

00:03:35:23 - 00:03:41:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. And I mean, we could we could talk about, you know, the scheduling feature on Slack, too, but. Well, we'll digress.

00:03:41:10 - 00:04:11:17
Wayne Turmel
That's the whole point. Whether it's Slack or Outlook or Teams or whatever you're using, there are tools that are available to do that. But there are two parts to the discussion. The first part is the person sending the message Are they respectful and intelligent enough to understand that the world doesn't revolve around them and that you intend to answer them and they will get an answer if you are not there and they need an answer.

00:04:12:01 - 00:04:15:06
Wayne Turmel
Maybe the answer is go find the answer from somebody else.

00:04:15:16 - 00:04:17:21
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Or pick up the phone, depending on what the Slack status says.

00:04:18:05 - 00:04:44:15
Wayne Turmel
Whatever the arrangement is. Right. But the person sending the message has to understand that all you can do is send the message to the other person that you can time it better. You can look at the status and go, okay, I shouldn't expect an answer in the next few minutes because she's busy. Take that off your plate. You've asked the question, go do something else.

00:04:44:20 - 00:05:00:06
Wayne Turmel
You're not sitting there drumming your fingers waiting for an answer. The second part of this equation, though, is the person dealing with the incoming messages. And we have talked about this before. We train people how to work with us.

00:05:00:14 - 00:05:04:06
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes, I had to learn the hard way. Yes.

00:05:04:07 - 00:05:28:21
Wayne Turmel
If you can't be bothered putting your out of office message, don't be surprised that people send you messages. Right. And because they see that you're there now, it takes them off that you're not responding. If you struggle with, okay, I'm going to be good. I've put my do not disturb on. I've left a status, says I'm busy for the next hour.

00:05:29:02 - 00:05:38:00
Wayne Turmel
But there's a lot of messages coming in. If you don't have the discipline to ignore that, then put on pause notifications.

00:05:38:23 - 00:05:55:05
Marisa Eikenberry
And that's part of the reason why I do that so much. And like I said, maybe I should be doing that at lunch because I know me and when my phone and my watch start digging, I start freaking out and maybe Nick is the same way that I am. And so, you know, it's like, hey, like I'm eating right now.

00:05:55:08 - 00:06:00:05
Marisa Eikenberry
Even though when you send me a message, you don't expect a response immediately because you know that I'm at lunch.

00:06:01:02 - 00:06:15:08
Wayne Turmel
Well, and even when you're there, I very often not that I am the patron saint of responsible communication, but I will preface it with, Hey, I don't need this answer right now.

00:06:15:13 - 00:06:16:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Right or no, But.

00:06:16:21 - 00:06:23:11
Wayne Turmel
When you get a chance, no rush. I will preface that so that I'm not adding to your stress.

00:06:24:02 - 00:06:26:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. And I appreciate that.

00:06:26:06 - 00:06:46:09
Wayne Turmel
Well, but it's called respectful communication. Right. So it's not the fault. It's not entirely the fault of the person sending the message. Right. Assuming that we have the discussion about when somebody has their do not disturb up, don't expect an answer.

00:06:46:13 - 00:06:49:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Right? Yeah, they may know one thing.

00:06:49:02 - 00:07:15:01
Wayne Turmel
If you get one. Consider yourself lucky, but. Right. That's not necessarily something that you should expect. And then it's incumbent on us to live our values. If one of those values is Don't bother me during lunch. You can put up your do not disturb or better yet, pause your notification. And what Slack does, which I love Teams, doesn't allow you to do it quite as easily, is you can put in a status.

00:07:15:06 - 00:07:16:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Right. I love that.

00:07:16:23 - 00:07:23:09
Wayne Turmel
Like, I'm going out. You know, when we're finished recording this, I'm taking my bride to lunch today.

00:07:23:19 - 00:07:24:09
Marisa Eikenberry
That's awesome.

00:07:24:10 - 00:07:38:04
Wayne Turmel
If I just. You. Yeah, but if I just use the little lunch icon people come in the house, Maybe I'm sitting at my desk. I will say when I leave here today, out for lunch, be back at X, have my phone with me.

00:07:38:11 - 00:07:39:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I want for.

00:07:39:09 - 00:07:44:11
Wayne Turmel
Training that message. There is no confusion over whether people should be expecting answers from me.

00:07:44:15 - 00:07:45:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:07:45:17 - 00:08:01:22
Wayne Turmel
So it takes just as it takes two to tango. It takes two to talk to each other over the messages. So it's not just that people ignore the slack messages, although they do. We can also control how much that tortures us.

00:08:02:13 - 00:08:12:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Absolutely. And and we're always going to get the outlier every now and then. That's not going to see it. And there's nothing that they can do at all that you just it's just a part of work.

00:08:12:18 - 00:08:18:13
Wayne Turmel
Okay. I'm going to say something, and this is only between you and me and whoever happens to be listening to this.

00:08:19:00 - 00:08:19:14
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay.

00:08:19:20 - 00:08:22:18
Wayne Turmel
Some people are idiots.

00:08:24:00 - 00:08:24:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Yes.

00:08:26:08 - 00:08:32:05
Wayne Turmel
You can't manage to the exception, but you can recognize that exceptions exist.

00:08:32:22 - 00:08:54:13
Marisa Eikenberry
100%. And speaking of people who don't allow for exceptions, I'm going to move on to our next pet peeve from Nola Simon, who said “People who always insist on having cameras on.” I presume this is not just on one on one meetings. I know we've had a lot of conversation about how if you can put your cameras on during one on one meetings, it does help.

00:08:54:13 - 00:09:05:01
Marisa Eikenberry
It enriches the experience. But I assume she's also talking about even in like town hall type meetings where you and I have talked about, you know, you may not necessarily want your camera on.

00:09:05:23 - 00:09:32:00
Wayne Turmel
Here's the thing. And part a lot of this discussion comes from the history with your history with the other person. So, for example, I in the early days of my being in this business, I would say things like turn your camera on. And people would say to me with a perfectly straight face, they just want to see me on camera so they can make sure I'm working.

00:09:32:05 - 00:09:54:01
Wayne Turmel
Oh, good Lord, if that is your culture, right? If you believe that your leadership thinks like that or worse, your leadership actually thinks like that, there is no sane way to have this conversation. It's just going to be ugly and weird and stressful. I prefer whenever possible to be on camera because I want to see the person I'm talking to.

00:09:54:05 - 00:10:19:20
Wayne Turmel
I also understand that there are times when that is not ideal. Nobody needs to see you walking the dog. Yes, you can put your camera on and do zoom while you're walking the dog. But does that really add value? No. And by the way, it's making me a little queasy. You know, I just got back from the gym and I look like, heck or in my case, and I have told people this, you know this.

00:10:19:21 - 00:10:47:10
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. Yes. I will meet with you at 6:00 in the morning my time, because that's convenient for you. Do not expect to see my smiling face. I am not going to be showered. I am not going to be presentable. I mean, tomorrow morning hours. Our team meeting is at 7 a.m. my time. I will have my camera on, but I'm going to have my baseball cap on a shirt and I am not going to be shiny and happy and gorgeous for me.

00:10:47:14 - 00:10:49:18
Wayne Turmel
And you don't expect me to right?

00:10:49:18 - 00:11:07:10
Marisa Eikenberry
You and I have had conversations sometimes where you call the meeting early because I usually don't try to schedule anything with you super early. But you know, you need me for something to tech issue whatever it is and you'll tell me, Hey, I'm not going to have my camera on. And usually if you don't have yours on, I don't have mine on either because I feel like it's weird, but that's just me.

00:11:07:20 - 00:11:09:01
Wayne Turmel
Now, here's the thing.

00:11:09:07 - 00:11:09:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay?

00:11:09:21 - 00:11:27:23
Wayne Turmel
If there is a history of I never want to put my camera on, I don't ever want to be seen, that's a red flag for me that says to me, why not? And if your answer is a why, I don't want to. Not a good enough answer.

00:11:27:23 - 00:11:28:09
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:11:29:03 - 00:11:37:15
Wayne Turmel
I am prepared to work with you. Right. If it's lunchtime, you don't want to see me munching on it, doing a fish sandwich. Nobody wants to see that. Fine.

00:11:38:02 - 00:11:38:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:11:38:13 - 00:11:45:08
Wayne Turmel
A lot of times in meetings, people will put their camera on to say hello. And then once the meeting starts, the camera goes off.

00:11:45:11 - 00:11:46:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, I've seen that a lot.

00:11:47:02 - 00:12:06:05
Wayne Turmel
That's fine. There are very few, thou shalt. Now, our rule in general is the richer the conversation, the more you want the webcam function. Right. So if we're having a team meeting, does it matter that you see me in the little box in the corner? Probably not.

00:12:06:17 - 00:12:07:01
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:12:07:10 - 00:12:27:14
Wayne Turmel
Matter of fact, the longer the meeting goes on, the less I want you to see me because my eyes are rolling and my phone and I'm doing things right. Doing. But the people speaking should be visible. That's actually true. And if I am participating, if I'm having thing, my camera comes on and people can see me, that's kind of the way it should work.

00:12:28:01 - 00:12:35:15
Wayne Turmel
But with large meetings, group meetings, it's not that important. If you and I are having a coaching conversation.

00:12:35:23 - 00:12:37:00
Marisa Eikenberry
Oh yeah, totally.

00:12:37:00 - 00:12:46:12
Wayne Turmel
We're having our one on one. I want to see your face. The smaller the group, the more intimate the discussion, the more that matters.

00:12:46:15 - 00:13:13:10
Marisa Eikenberry
Well, it's interesting that you say this, because I know I mean, we have people on our team. I won't name names that not that they don't want to have cameras on, like, ever. But it's like typically they just prefer not to. I'm used to those people. And so, like, I know that if I talk to, you know, Guy, typically it's over the phone or typically it's an audio only slack huddle or something like that, you know?

00:13:13:10 - 00:13:18:12
Marisa Eikenberry
Whereas I know that if I get on a call with you, unless you say otherwise, I'm turning my camera on.

00:13:18:22 - 00:13:52:10
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, my default is that, you know, I'm going to have I'm going to have my camera on and I want to talk to you. But I had a sales call this morning. We did it on teams myself and the client. I was on camera. The client knows how to use teams. He understands that there's a camera there. He chose not to do it like any you're any time you're communicating with other people, you have to think about how Rich does this communication need to be?

00:13:52:10 - 00:14:09:07
Wayne Turmel
How what are the states how rich is this communication? How do I fulfill my part of the bargain? You know, I don't think we've ever talked on the show about the 51% rule, which is in any communication. You own 51% of the responsibility.

00:14:09:22 - 00:14:11:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Okay. That makes sense.

00:14:11:03 - 00:14:16:14
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. You're both responsible for the communication working out. You should own just a little bit more.

00:14:16:20 - 00:14:22:07
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, Because if we both come in with that attitude, like, how rich is the communication now? There you.

00:14:22:07 - 00:14:36:02
Wayne Turmel
Go. Both people are taking responsibility. It's all good. And that's the thing. Why are people not turning their cameras on if it's because they're worried the NSA is listening? I have very little patience for that.

00:14:36:12 - 00:14:37:02
Marisa Eikenberry
Right.

00:14:37:17 - 00:14:55:23
Wayne Turmel
You know, people aren't always in the right location or have the best lighting. You know, if you happen to be physically in a place and you're not set up for web communication and you've got the light behind you, you look like the mystery witness on 60 Minutes.

00:14:56:07 - 00:14:56:16
Marisa Eikenberry
Right?

00:14:57:14 - 00:14:59:16
Wayne Turmel
Then there's no value in you being on camera.

00:14:59:23 - 00:15:16:03
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah. Or you might be in a situation where, you know, your bandwidth is not great. I know I had that issue a lot last year. You know, I was in a place where my phone was my hotspot and it was like, I can get on a meeting with you, but I can't turn on my camera. And I made sure to communicate with that.

00:15:16:03 - 00:15:17:04
Marisa Eikenberry
And you guys knew that?

00:15:17:16 - 00:15:40:06
Wayne Turmel
Yeah, there are. There are government agencies that I've done training with that I'm on camera because I'm the trainer, but I know they can't do it or the network is just going to crash and teams is going to malfunction and it's going to get weird. So really talk to the person that you're communicating with. Does it matter that cameras are involved?

00:15:40:06 - 00:15:47:21
Wayne Turmel
Does it not? If you're not using your camera, why not? And understand the impact of using or not using it.

00:15:48:09 - 00:16:03:15
Marisa Eikenberry
Yeah, just like with anything that we talk about communication, you have to communicate with your people, talk about the situation. So, Wayne, thank you so much for talking about some of these pet peeves. I can't wait to get through some of these other ones that have been sent to us.

00:16:03:22 - 00:16:05:07
Wayne Turmel
And there are some beauties.

00:16:05:17 - 00:16:28:17
Marisa Eikenberry
There are some good ones like some of these are going to get juicy. And if you have a pet peeve that you would like us to talk about, absolutely let us know. Wherever you're watching, if you're watching this on YouTube, put it in a comment. If you're on our blog, put it in the comment there. But overall, listeners, thank you for listening to the Long-Distance Worklife for shownotes, transcripts and other resources.

00:16:28:22 - 00:16:49:17
Marisa Eikenberry
Make sure to visit longdistanceworklife.com. If you haven't yet subscribe to the podcast, you won't miss any future episodes. And while you're there, be sure to like and review. This helps us know what you love about our show. Feel free to contact us via email or LinkedIn with the links in our show notes. Let us know you listened to this episode or suggest a pet peeve or a future topic for Wayne, and I to attack on a future episode.

00:16:50:06 - 00:17:16:05
Marisa Eikenberry
If you'd like to learn more about remote teams, order Wayne and Kevin Eikenberry's new book, The Long-Distance Team. You can learn more about the book at LongDistanceTeamBook.com. Thanks for joining us. And as Wayne likes to say, don't let the weasels get you down.

Read More
Guests, Hybrid Work, Surviving Remote Work, Working Remotely

Mastering Your Mindset for Remote Work: Tips and Strategies from Angela Shurina, an Executive Brain Coach

Wayne Turmel interviews Angela Shurina, an executive brain coach, about how to stay productive while working remotely. They discuss the evolving workplace and the growing trend of remote work, which allows people to work from anywhere. However, Shurina notes that many people struggle with the mindset needed for remote work, and she provides tips and strategies to help listeners overcome these challenges. One key issue is the importance of creating boundaries between work and home life, as well as differentiating between different work tasks. Shurina also emphasizes the brain's adaptability and the importance of understanding how to use it effectively, which she calls the "Brain's User Manual." Overall, this episode offers valuable insights and tips for anyone navigating the world of remote work.

Key Takeaways

1. Creating boundaries between work and home life is crucial for remote work success.
2. Differentiating between work tasks and having designated work areas in the same space can improve productivity.
3. Understanding the brain's adaptability and learning how to use it effectively can help overcome the challenges of remote work.
4. Overcoming the difficulties of mastering a remote work mindset requires checking assumptions against reality and using resources available to make changes.
5. The brain is an adaptive machine, and small environmental changes can have a large effect on focus and productivity.

Timestamps

00:00:00 Benefits of Working Remotely

00:02:05 Working Remotely and Mastering Oneself

00:06:58 Exploring the Benefits of Establishing Boundaries in the Workplace

00:08:57 Benefits of Understanding the Brain's User Manual

00:10:52 Overcoming Feelings of Overwhelm

00:13:36 Advantages of Digital Organization Systems

00:15:44 Organization, Overcoming Procrastination, and Brain Biology

00:17:30 Overcoming Procrastination and Designing Teams for Remote Hybrid Work

Related Episodes

Featured Guest

Angela Shurina

Name: Angela Shurina

What She Does: Executive Brain/Performance Coach

Notable: Angela helps entrepreneurs, executives and teams to optimize workflow, lifestyle and nutrition habits to help the brain perform optimally to achieve personal and professional goals faster and without burnout. Let’s make the brain our ally not the enemy.

Additional Resources

Order The Long-Distance Team

Remote leadership experts, Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel, help leaders navigate the new world of remote and hybrid teams to design the culture they desire for their teams and organizations in their new book!

 Order

View Full Transcript

00:00:08:18 - 00:00:43:03
Wayne Turmel
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Long-Distance Worklife podcast where we try to make sense of working from home, working in the office hybrid work wherever your brain and your butt are and getting stuff done. It is an ever evolving workplace, and that's what we are here for. This is not a Marisa episode, although we have been having an inordinate amount of fun with her lately, answering your questions and addressing your pet peeves.

00:00:43:09 - 00:00:58:17
Wayne Turmel
So she will be back next week. Do not fret, though. I am joined by a very, very clever person, the executive brain coach, Angela Shurina, who is joining us right now. Hi, Angela.

00:00:59:10 - 00:01:03:20
Angela Shurina
Hi, Wayne. So pleased to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

00:01:04:05 - 00:01:18:10
Wayne Turmel
Well, thank you for being here. Although you are not here, you are actually. And I love this about at the workplace right now. Last time I talked to you, I can't remember where you were, but it wasn't Brazil, which is where you are now.

00:01:19:00 - 00:01:21:17
Angela Shurina
Yes, it was Mexico, Playa del Carmen.

00:01:23:07 - 00:01:39:09
Wayne Turmel
Darn, your life is not bad. And this is part of the thing, right? Is you do good work and you write and you teach and you do all this stuff and yet you can do it from pretty much anywhere, which is a very cool thing.

00:01:40:00 - 00:02:04:10
Angela Shurina
Yeah, I think it's the reality for a lot more people. When people look into that, great, so we all know that most of us don't need to be in the office for all the hours that we work. And so why not take our self to some other place that we might explore, enjoy more instead of staying in one place in doing the work from there?

00:02:05:15 - 00:02:35:03
Wayne Turmel
Well, that's absolutely true, and there are lots of reasons people don't do that. You know, some people are grown ups with responsibilities and children and stuff, Right. And they're not free to do that. And here's the other thing. And this is what I want to talk about today is regardless of what chair you happen to be in at the moment, you still have to get work done.

00:02:36:04 - 00:03:03:12
Wayne Turmel
And our brains aren't always our best friends when it comes to this. And I know that you have done a ton of studying and writing on how the brain works and and or does it as the case may be. And we have a bunch of things I want to talk about burnout. I want to talk about fatigue. If we have time to it, we'll get to procrastination.

00:03:03:15 - 00:03:33:20
Wayne Turmel
And yes, I fully realize the irony of what I just said. I understand that. But let's just start with why do some people struggle with mastering themselves and creating a mindset that allows them to work remotely or free of the constraints most people have and other people just can't do it?

00:03:35:13 - 00:04:14:08
Angela Shurina
You know, I actually would just throw it in other place. But since you asked this question, I think a lot of people have assumptions that they don't check against reality. That's, I believe, the foundation of it. Right. So we think that it is not. It is impossible to, let's say, move with our family to another country, even if, you know, for a short while, because I don't know, because of kids school or because, you know, we are used to certain things or getting groceries or having our routines taken care of.

00:04:15:03 - 00:04:48:11
Angela Shurina
But then when you do research, actually the environment changed so much and you can do all of those things in most places in the world. And the world is much more open to that and ready for that. Right. And so I think it's assumptions and not feeling like maybe people have resources to put a little bit extra work into that research and decision making and changing things.

00:04:48:17 - 00:05:19:16
Angela Shurina
And then another aspect of it, of course, when we are in a familiar environment, we spend much less energy on making different decisions, on learning or on doing our thing, everyday things and people. And our brain is always trying to save energy, right? So when people think about how can it move to or should I move to another country, the brain immediately for most people will say no, too much work will already overwhelmed tired fatigue.

00:05:19:21 - 00:05:34:01
Angela Shurina
So no to the idea, right? See where you are, where we are because that's familiar. That's no additional energy expenditure. And that's why people tend to stay in the same place. Well, even.

00:05:34:01 - 00:06:10:12
Wayne Turmel
If they are in the same place. You said something that really resonated with me, which is I work from home. I have for a very long time, but things have kind of shifted in my domestic relationship with my bride, and I find them because I am home all day. I am doing a lot more stuff today. I'm waiting for the dryer repairman and I'm doing all of this kind of stuff that I used to being a good old cis at white male used to give to my wife to do.

00:06:11:15 - 00:06:28:02
Wayne Turmel
And I find now that because I'm home, I'm doing a lot of that stuff and I'm not as focused on work. I'm kind of more stressed than I was. Is that normal or is that just me?

00:06:28:23 - 00:06:58:08
Angela Shurina
No, it is absolutely normal. And that's an issue for a lot of people working from home. People don't put enough energy and time into organizing their work and home environment, separating them and building boundaries around them. By boundaries, I mean, for example, hours when people work, when people take breaks and take care of their other responsibilities at home, where people do their work.

00:06:58:08 - 00:07:31:05
Angela Shurina
Right. Where is the workplace? Where is the place for food or for doing other things? The entertainment, learning, taking care of our responsibilities. So for our brains, banality is very important. One example that might be you know, a lot more people might understand is, for example, if you decide to work at home in bed where you usually sleep, the brain is that a very, I don't know, magical adaptation machine.

00:07:31:11 - 00:08:15:11
Angela Shurina
Whenever we switch our environment from bad to we are from, you know, whatever we work to the bed, our brain immediately puts us in this state ready for sleep, because that's what we usually do when, when we in bed. So certain neurotransmitters are released, certain are not released. And we get into the sleepy state. Right now, if it's not sleeping time and somebody is trying to work there, they will not feel that productive and focused and effective at doing the work because the brain reads the environment and prepares for what you usually do there and creates the state optimal for that task.

00:08:16:09 - 00:08:50:00
Angela Shurina
And that's why, you know, even if the our working space is limited, not everybody can have separate office and separate room for for doing other things, having seasonality in a sense that, you know, maybe moving your table, maybe having different of corners of the same room for doing different work and taking care of other responsibility that will really help people to improve their productivity and effectiveness of doing other things.

00:08:50:07 - 00:08:56:09
Angela Shurina
So like environment, that's I think people are just not taught that fact.

00:08:57:00 - 00:09:15:21
Wayne Turmel
And I think there's a lot of things people aren't taught, not the least of which is how easily we trick our brains for good or evil. I keep moving. Your table close to the window shouldn't be as big a deal as in fact, it is.

00:09:16:09 - 00:09:41:18
Angela Shurina
Mm hmm. Yes. Because, you know, like, for example, it increases the production of dopamine, and it is one of the major molecules that allows us to stay focused and accomplish things and have energy and drive to to accomplish tasks. And so if somebody works, for example, in a corner that is darker, they are going to be having a harder time just focusing on things and getting things done right.

00:09:42:05 - 00:09:53:11
Angela Shurina
I like to call this, you know, Brain's user manual, like nobody taught us those things, like how to actually use our brain. Of course, one of the reasons was there was not enough science compared to now.

00:09:56:16 - 00:10:27:07
Wayne Turmel
What you said is disturbing. I impulse and I'll tell you why. It's because because our brains are so easily tricked and because we're not always conscious of what is going on, we get in our own way. And so let's take a look at some of the most common things that people experience, and you can help guide us through some of this.

00:10:27:20 - 00:10:34:03
Wayne Turmel
The first thing I think that a lot of people are feeling is just a sense of overwhelm.

00:10:34:19 - 00:10:36:02
Angela Shurina
Mm hmm.

00:10:36:04 - 00:10:52:17
Wayne Turmel
Things are just it's just too much. And I'm trying to keep up at work and I'm trying to be a good soldier and I want to be a good teammate and I want to be a good employee. And I want my boss in while I'm working so I don't get fired. And, oh, by the way, the dog needs to be walked and their stuff.

00:10:52:18 - 00:10:59:03
Wayne Turmel
Yeah. Why does our brain beat us up like that?

00:11:00:20 - 00:11:19:03
Angela Shurina
Yes, The brain is always actually not trying to beat us up, but trying to do its best job to help us accomplish things in life and, you know, get what we want. But it has, again, its user manual. It's kind of like every car hybrid, electric or gas has a set of rules how to use it. The same for the brain.

00:11:19:13 - 00:11:57:15
Angela Shurina
And our brain has also limitations. It's not limitless in its capacities. So one of those limitations, for example, is our working memory or that part of our brain that keeps the stuff that we are working on or thinking off in one place to analyze, to process and to help us achieve it. Now, again, it is limited. And so the more stuff we put there without management, without, I don't know, putting certain on schedule or things in certain folders or a project, if we just keep them at the back of our mind, so to speak, in that working memory.

00:11:57:23 - 00:12:46:08
Angela Shurina
That's where the feeling of overwhelm comes from because all of those things there in that center, in that working memory at the same time. And the reason is because people are not taught that to separate their life and their work into different projects. And how can we do that? Very simple. Let's see if you have different projects at work you can create on your computer different folders, and you put the information in related to that in those folders and then you studio things and you write it down again, put into folders, schedule them, and then that unloads your working memory because now it's kind of like in the cloud.

00:12:46:13 - 00:13:08:23
Angela Shurina
Right. If somebody has personal life project the same thing, creative folder, schedule it. If you need to spend time with family, with dogs, you know, with spouses, then put it on your calendar. And now you are not just trying to keep it in your working memory, trying not to forget. Now it's out there, manage by our technology that can actually help us to feel less overwhelmed.

00:13:10:03 - 00:13:36:00
Angela Shurina
And one of the most popular strategy from productivity coaches is that you have to manage your life and work as projects and you have to unload what you keep in your brain into some device, into some storage, can can be folders, can be your schedule. So you don't think about it all the time, like what you have to get done, right?

00:13:36:02 - 00:13:48:12
Angela Shurina
You put in place reminders. I personally put reminders for anything from my work to doing my laundry, etc. So it's all in the schedule and I can be free thinking about whatever I need to think. At the moment.

00:13:50:00 - 00:14:11:22
Wayne Turmel
I am both old and analog, and so I do everything by notebooks. Is there an advantage to doing it electronically? Does the old analog, you know, write your list out, keep it in a paper calendar? Are there differences?

00:14:12:13 - 00:14:36:14
Angela Shurina
Yeah. The difference is about the effectiveness of the system. Now you can write them down, but then you have a system to organize that. Do you have separate folders for different areas of your life and work? So we need to when you need to find something, it's actually easy to find. The advantage of digital system is that number one, it is.

00:14:37:10 - 00:14:58:13
Angela Shurina
It can be structured in so many ways, right? You can have folders of all kinds and you can put links there and audio files and video files. Number two, it can be accessed in theory from everywhere. Like if you have your Google Drive, for example, you can access it from your phone, you can access it from your computer.

00:15:00:02 - 00:15:21:08
Angela Shurina
Another thing, you can connect it to your calendar that will send you reminders. You can share it with other people, and then when you want to physically move, you don't have to move your notebooks and think about that or getting a new notebook in just one place all the time. And I think the last but not least, it's searchable.

00:15:21:16 - 00:15:42:21
Angela Shurina
When you put it into digital storage. Now you can put in keywords and search for a very specific thing instead of trying to browse through, you know, for example, and again, can be done probably with notebooks too. But it requires that organization so you can actually find the stuff that you put in there easily.

00:15:44:02 - 00:16:11:07
Wayne Turmel
Wow. That is a lot of stuff and I am properly shamed. But let's in the few minutes that we have left in time is fleeing. Good heavens. I do want to make sure because this is my personal demon. And so I am using this as therapy time. And I make no apologies to our listeners about this. My big demon is procrastination.

00:16:11:07 - 00:16:30:16
Wayne Turmel
I am a world class procrastinator. Here I am at 43,000 words of the new novel, and it ain't going anywhere. Tips for Overcoming Procrastination. Maybe. Why does our brain do that to us and what can we do about it?

00:16:32:00 - 00:16:59:16
Angela Shurina
So there are a few things, you know, from biology to psychology. I probably want to start with psychology because biology might take a while to unpack. So psychology, you know, your brain actually, Wayne, is not procrastinating, not, you know, the way you think your brain does everything to keep you alive, to keep you fed, to keep you having a roof over your head.

00:17:00:02 - 00:17:30:07
Angela Shurina
So your brain does the important things. Now, why brain? Our brains primary purpose is survival. And so if we procrastinate on some project, that's because a couple of reasons I'll bring think it is not important to our immediate survival and thriving. Right. And that's why we tend to do things the urgent, especially if we are committed to someone and procrastinate on things that are kind of good to you.

00:17:30:07 - 00:18:09:06
Angela Shurina
But you know, we might skip it. And that's internal knowledge of what's important and urgent and what is not. That is because of procrastination on some projects, but not on others, like, you know, essential work that pays the bills. You, the people usually don't procrastinate on that. And number two, the brain often thinks that the project that you're procrastinating on is too expensive, meaning you have to put a lot a lot of energy in that the cost and the outcome, the reward is unknown somewhere far in the future.

00:18:09:06 - 00:18:38:06
Angela Shurina
So your brain is much more concerned with the immediate survival. And that's kind of the answer to this question. And the exercise here is to figure out, to talk to you, to your brain and create this urgency almost artificially by, for example, writing down all the potential benefits of finishing this project if you're working on your book, right.

00:18:38:12 - 00:19:02:18
Angela Shurina
So you might start journaling a little bit about what this book can bring into your life, how can improve, how it can improve your business, what kind of connections in opportunities it can bring into your life, how much more income it can bring, and then maybe put more examples to make it really true to your brain, to make your brain understand that this is actually important for your future.

00:19:03:07 - 00:19:21:18
Angela Shurina
This is where I would always start if I find people who I work with procrastinating, I'm trying to make them understand why it's important in the first place. Right? Talk to your brain about the rewards and the future that you are getting from getting this done.

00:19:22:23 - 00:19:56:20
Wayne Turmel
Wow. I don't know about talking to my brain. It has been a pleasure talking to your brain, which works very differently than mine. We are at the end of our time, alas. Thank you, Angela, for being with us. We will have notes, links with how to reach Angela, Executive Brain Coaching, all of that good stuff. We will have that in the show notes, which are of course on longdistanceworklife.com.

00:19:56:20 - 00:20:30:15
Wayne Turmel
Angela, thank you for being with us. I am going to wrap things up here. If you are interested in this episode or any others, please like and subscribe. Tell the rest of the world. Our listenership is growing in leaps and bounds. Most of that is due to the hard work of Marisa. If you want to reach it myself or Marisa, you can reach us on LinkedIn or wayne@KevinEikenberry.com, Marisa@KevinEikenberry.com.

00:20:31:11 - 00:20:58:14
Wayne Turmel
Tell us your pet peeves. Ask your questions. Let us know what you think. Also, if you are thinking about how to design your team for remote hybrid work, trying to find that balance. Kevin Eikenberry and I have our new book, The Long-Distance Team: Designing Your Team for Everyone's Success. You can learn all about it and get free stuff at longdistanceteambook.com.

00:20:58:23 - 00:21:05:03
Wayne Turmel
That's it for another week. Thank you so much for being with us. Thank you to Angela Shurina.

00:21:07:11 - 00:21:25:13
Wayne Turmel
I hope to talk to you again soon, folks. Don't let the weasels get you down.


Read More