In this month's Ask Wayne Anything episode, Marisa asks questions about the use of Zoom and how it has almost replaced a phone call. They also discuss when webcams should be used on a Zoom call (the answer may surprise you), Zoom fatigue and etiquette around the use of virtual backgrounds.
Question of the Week:
When should you be turning off your webcam during a Zoom Meeting?
Additional Resources:
Transcript
Marisa Eikenberry: Hi. Welcome to the Long-Distance Worklife. I'm Marisa Eikenberry. And joining me is Wayne Turmel. Each week we're talking to you about technology, how to work remotely, develop your leadership skills, and also just survive this new remote thing that we've got going on right now. This week, we're doing a Q&A episode where I'm going to ask Wayne questions and he's going to answer them.
If you would like to have your questions answered, make sure to go to longdistanceworklife.com and fill out the form and we'll get your questions answered on a future episode. Okay, Wayne, you ready for some questions?
Wayne Turmel: Yeah, bring it. I kind of know where we're going, but not really. So.
Marisa: Yeah, so I thought today that we could talk about Zoom and, you know, Microsoft Teams, I mean, whatever you want to call it. But these video chat softwares that we've been using a lot, the last couple of years, and I know we've been using them longer than that to Skype and all that kind of thing. So one of the first things that I kind of wanted to talk about was it occurred to me recently that some of the times that we would normally pick up a phone and have a conversation that way about a project or whatever, Zoom has almost kind of replaced that.
And I'm kind of wondering what you think about that. Have you thought about it and what are the implications of that?
Wayne: Have I thought about it? Let's see...
Marisa:
That may have been a stupid question.
Wayne: What book number is this? Yeah. I spend a lot of time worrying and it's funny because I started thinking about this stuff back you know, in the early 2000s. So this has been obsessing me for a while. Webcams are a beautiful thing. And it's funny because the first umpteen years of my career in this space, I was like, "Use your webcam, use your webcam" because on the surface, it makes perfect sense.
It adds richness to communication. I can see you nodding your head. Right now. Right?
Marisa: Adds body language.
Wayne: Body language. You can tell as you're talking. You can tell that I have something I want to say and that makes it easy to direct traffic and all of that makes perfect sense. It doesn't mean, though, human beings have never invented the technology, they can't suck all the fun and usefulness out of it.
Marisa: Yes.
Wayne: And this is a perfect example we get. It used to be "I didn't want to use webcams because..." and the list was pretty long. "I don't have the bandwidth."
Marisa: That's fair.
Wayne:
So that, you know, I look like I'm in a Japanese monster movie because my mouth and my words are not matching.
00:02:46:10 - 00:02:47:10
Marisa
Right.
00:02:47:10 - 00:02:48:20
Wayne
It made the meeting crash.
00:02:48:21 - 00:02:52:14
Wayne
All of this is true back in the before times.
00:02:52:14 - 00:02:54:11
Marisa
Mm hmm.
00:02:54:11 - 00:03:20:21
Wayne
They crashed a lot and it was a pain in the neck and it slowed up bandwidth. So that was a legitimate excuse. As we've talked about and former shows. It wasn't like, Oh, Magic Box will steal my soul. But there were people suspicious of using them because, oh, the manager just really wants to know we're paying attention on meetings, and it's not about the positive results.
00:03:21:00 - 00:03:21:09
Marisa
Right.
00:03:23:15 - 00:03:37:01
Wayne
Generally speaking, the richer the communication, the better. So you would think that I would be saying use your webcams all the time, and that is not the case. There are plenty of reasons not to.
00:03:37:01 - 00:03:38:01
Marisa
Mm hmm.
00:03:38:01 - 00:03:44:02
Wayne
One is, if you have to be on Zoom for every thing, you lose mobility.
00:03:45:02 - 00:03:45:10
Marisa
Right.
00:03:45:16 - 00:03:55:01
Wayne
Sometimes you're in the car, sometimes you're going to your next meeting. Sometimes you're in the kitchen making sure the kids are eating. I mean.
00:03:55:12 - 00:03:57:23
Marisa
Are you just walking around your office when you're on a phone call?
00:03:58:08 - 00:04:18:13
Wayne
Exactly. The fact that you can get up and wander around and not worry about the camera is really important. So sometimes the speed of the communication, the fact that it's going to be a two minute call I mean, I'll give you a perfect example. You and I haven't dealt with this because I deal with you at civilized hours most of the time.
00:04:18:17 - 00:04:42:06
Wayne
But because I'm on the West Coast and you're on the East Coast, I had a call with a coworker this morning. It's 6:30 in the morning my time. Yes, I can talk to you. Yes. This is an important conversation. No, I'm not turning on my camera. Nobody needs to see my bedhead and my AC/DC t-shirt. That does nobody any good.
00:04:42:17 - 00:04:44:04
Marisa
To be fair. Sounds like a cool shirt.
00:04:45:11 - 00:04:49:00
Wayne
The fact that I rock it is not the point of the exercise.
00:04:49:01 - 00:04:50:01
Marisa
No pun intended. Right?
00:04:52:12 - 00:05:22:20
Wayne
And I think we overdo webcams or use them inappropriately for a couple of reasons. One is that we are lonely and we don't see other human beings. And remember, in the glorious before times, we received regardless of where you work over 60% of your social interaction for the week will take place through work.
00:05:23:04 - 00:05:23:10
Marisa
Mm hmm.
00:05:23:21 - 00:05:43:19
Wayne
Working with coworkers is dealing with people in the office, customers, whatever We are largely cut off a lot of us. We may not actually speak to other human beings when we do. There is a need to make it as rich as possible.
00:05:44:07 - 00:05:44:14
Marisa
Mm hmm.
00:05:46:09 - 00:05:55:01
Wayne
Some of that makes perfect sense. You want higher quality communication. Some of it is just, "Oh, dear God. Let me see another human."
00:05:55:17 - 00:06:05:14
Marisa
Especially when we were all in lockdown. I mean, I was like that. The only person I saw every day was my husband. So if somebody was like, "Okay, we're going to get on a Zoom call." Oh, thank God.
00:06:06:07 - 00:06:11:07
Wayne
Well, and even an introvert like me who isn't that fond of other human beings.
00:06:11:07 - 00:06:11:17
Marisa
Amen.
00:06:11:22 - 00:06:14:22
Wayne
Had a need for that.
00:06:14:22 - 00:06:16:10
Marisa
Just to see somebody else.
00:06:16:15 - 00:06:30:22
Wayne
Exactly. And and some of that stems from and we will have this conversation someday. There was a book called A World Without Email. Okay. And the author escapes me. Very smart guy.
00:06:31:09 - 00:06:32:13
Marisa
Wasn't Cal Newport was it?
00:06:32:21 - 00:06:33:22
Wayne
Yeah, it was Cal Newport.
00:06:33:23 - 00:06:34:03
Marisa
Yep.
00:06:34:19 - 00:06:35:18
Wayne
Nice job.
00:06:36:05 - 00:06:37:12
Marisa
I have read some of his stuff just not that one.
00:06:37:13 - 00:07:06:19
Wayne
A bigger book nerd than me. That is hard to find, but I love you. But his thing, I don't agree with everything Cal says. But his point is that there is this hivemind mentality where even when we are not working together, we're desperately trying to recreate that office environment, in that office environment where you can just pop in and talk to people.
00:07:07:00 - 00:07:22:22
Wayne
That office environment where you actually see and engage with human beings in engaging in human ways We have stream of consciousness conversations. We work together, which is why email threads get miles long.
00:07:23:03 - 00:07:23:12
Marisa
Right.
00:07:24:17 - 00:07:31:13
Wayne
If somebody walked up to us in the office and started talking to us, we wouldn't say, Wait a minute, I'm on Do Not Disturb.
00:07:32:10 - 00:07:32:21
Marisa
Fair.
00:07:33:04 - 00:07:45:10
Wayne
Right. We would respond. That's why we feel the need to respond to every email that comes in, because it's the equivalent of somebody stopping by our desk to tell us something and it would be rude to ignore it.
00:07:45:10 - 00:07:47:01
Wayne
Mm hmm.
00:07:47:01 - 00:07:57:07
Wayne
And the same is true of webcams. I think we have two things have happened number one is we have this need to connect things like, oh, thank God, another person.
00:07:57:23 - 00:07:58:09
Marisa
Right.
00:07:58:14 - 00:08:20:17
Wayne
Right. I think that's part of it. But there's also we are trying to recreate the meeting. And of course, in the meeting, we sat around the room and we all saw each other. And we could do that. And that's great. And we're trying to recreate that, forgetting, of course, that in the before times, our biggest complaint was meetings.
00:08:21:02 - 00:08:38:06
Wayne
Right. They sucked they wasted time. Now they get to suck and waste time. And oh, by the way, I'm on them nonstop from morning till night. We used to go home to work because we could get away from all that stuff. And it has followed us well.
00:08:38:06 - 00:08:58:12
Marisa
And that's where the Zoom fatigue that, you know, you've talked about many times before, And something else that just occurred to me while you were talking a difference between meetings in the before times and now is I don't know about you, Wayne, but sometimes when I'm on a webcam in a meeting, I almost feel like I'm on the spot a little bit more because all of us are right there.
00:08:58:23 - 00:08:59:05
Wayne
This leads-
00:08:59:13 - 00:08:59:22
Marisa
We're all up there.
00:09:00:03 - 00:09:18:06
Wayne
This leads to the fatigue part and this is where there are a couple of things. And this is neurological and biological. And it sounds like it's not a big deal. And it actually is. There's a few things. Number one is we are staring at screens.
00:09:18:06 - 00:09:18:11
Marisa
Yes.
00:09:18:11 - 00:09:22:07
Wayne
Blue infrared, blue spectrum light.
00:09:23:17 - 00:09:24:21
Marisa
Yeah. Which we all know is not-
00:09:24:21 - 00:09:50:11
Wayne
It's not good for us. Is not good for us. Right. We should not be staring at screens all that often. And yet here we are. So there's one thing that is physically exhausting. The second thing is, if I'm on camera I'm on camera. I have to watch what I'm doing. Yes. I'm less likely to answer my email or answer a text message or something.
00:09:50:11 - 00:10:08:03
Wayne
And I suppose that's a good thing that we are at least offering the illusion of paying attention. But it's stressful. We have to be constantly on guard, you know, what we're doing is constantly being monitored, whether that is the intention or not.
00:10:08:12 - 00:10:08:22
Marisa
Right.
00:10:10:01 - 00:10:25:12
Wayne
So that's part of it. When you have the gallery view and you see everybody in the meeting, your eyes get strained because you are actually bouncing all over the screen. You aren't just looking at one thing.
00:10:26:16 - 00:10:28:06
Marisa
That was something that I hadn't really thought of.
00:10:28:07 - 00:10:41:17
Wayne
You are constantly monitoring and every time somebody on screen moves, I mean, one of the things that I have said for a long time and has frequently gotten me in trouble is that people are a lot like raccoons.
00:10:42:14 - 00:10:44:13
Marisa
Okay. I'm not sure I've heard you say this yet.
00:10:44:13 - 00:10:49:16
Wayne
Okay. Perhaps I need to explain. We are attracted by color, light and motion.
00:10:50:04 - 00:10:50:13
Marisa
Okay.
00:10:51:11 - 00:11:02:03
Wayne
So when we're supposed to be doing something and something is colorful or moving or changes on the screen, we reconnect with it.
00:11:02:17 - 00:11:03:09
Marisa
That makes sense.
00:11:05:12 - 00:11:08:12
Wayne
The more stuff that is moving on the screen.
00:11:10:01 - 00:11:12:15
Marisa
Yes, the more eyes go. That makes sense.
00:11:13:01 - 00:11:31:16
Wayne
So it is physically draining and people who have taught visual or lead virtual meetings will tell you, I used to be able to stand at the front of the room all day and actually get energized by it. Yeah, this is just exhausting. There's a reason our classes are 2 hours long and not a minute longer.
00:11:32:06 - 00:11:45:19
Marisa
Yeah. It would be a way to not only you've got you know, people can only pay attention for so long before, you know, yada, yada, yada. But yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean, if you've got an eight hour day, that's a quarter of your day.
00:11:45:19 - 00:11:46:06
Wayne
It's draining.
00:11:46:06 - 00:11:50:12
Wayne
So so the question then becomes when do we use the webcams or when do we not?
00:11:50:13 - 00:11:51:10
Marisa
Right, right.
00:11:52:02 - 00:12:05:07
Wayne
And look at me anticipate where we're going. I think there are a few things. Number one is when does it add value and when does it not? Right. If this is a quick question.
00:12:05:19 - 00:12:06:05
Marisa
Mm hmm.
00:12:06:23 - 00:12:35:05
Wayne
Hey, I just need a quick answer to this question. You can send a Slack message. You can put something on Teams. Hey, I need an answer right now, and you're not at your desk. That would be a good time to call. Right. Pick up the phone. This is where the grumpy old man in me goes on about how these darn kids... My daughter is 28 years old and perfectly intelligent and I have to keep reminding her that these transmit voice.
00:12:36:17 - 00:12:39:15
Marisa
Yeah. Okay. I will admit there are times I am guilty of that as well.
00:12:40:00 - 00:12:45:18
Wayne
So. Right choosing the right message, right tool for the right message.
00:12:45:20 - 00:12:46:15
Marisa
Absolutely is.
00:12:46:15 - 00:12:57:22
Wayne
Important. Secondly is when does adding a webcam to the conversation add value. I would warrant that the bigger the meeting, the less need there is to have everybody on camera.
00:12:58:16 - 00:13:02:07
Marisa
Really? That's not something I've heard yet.
00:13:02:07 - 00:13:24:15
Wayne
Having a bunch of little pictures at the top of your screen. And by the way, if you've got a big enough meeting, you don't have everybody there anyway. So you don't know what is going on. There is a distraction that frankly you don't need as a presenter. I always switch to speaker view, so that the person who is speaking shows up on mic
00:13:26:02 - 00:13:27:09
Marisa
And not everybody else.
00:13:27:15 - 00:13:42:14
Wayne
So if you if I'm teaching a class and you have a question, your face pops up. Oh, okay, Marisa. And I can interact with you and talk. Having everybody on camera paranoid about where they're looking and can I eat a sandwich and.
00:13:43:05 - 00:13:44:09
Marisa
Can I take notes?
00:13:44:09 - 00:14:12:04
Wayne
And can I take notes without somebody thinking I'm doing something else doesn't really add value. And it's just a distraction. So what I would say is at the beginning of a meeting when everybody is joining and saying hello, you can semi replicate that feeling of walking into the conference room before the meeting starts. And you see people all "Oh Marisa, I forgot to give you this" and "Oh, Bob, I got to talk to you about this after the meeting" and.
00:14:12:07 - 00:14:13:07
Marisa
How was the game last night?
00:14:13:07 - 00:14:41:12
Wayne
How was the game last night? Right. Those things can happen. But once the meeting starts there's no need for everybody to be if it's a town hall meeting. And I'm just going to be listening and oh, by the way, it's 3:00 in the afternoon in Indiana, so it is noon in L.A. and my tummy is grumbling. Nobody needs to watch me eat.
00:14:41:21 - 00:14:42:06
Marisa
Right.
00:14:42:06 - 00:14:43:06
Wayne
But I gotta eat.
00:14:43:15 - 00:15:04:05
Marisa
Right. Absolutely. So real quick, I have a question based on that. So if you're in a quote unquote town hall, kind of meeting and maybe there are multiple presenters, you know, two or three whatever, do you recommend that just that person who is speaking have their webcam on and everybody else shuts off and then basically turn it on when it's your time to speak?
00:15:04:19 - 00:15:10:13
Wayne
I think the goal is to tell everybody to put it to speaker view.
00:15:10:13 - 00:15:13:18
Marisa
Okay. I will have to try that because I am somebody.
00:15:13:18 - 00:15:22:21
Wayne
We forget that there are multiple views and are almost always our default is to gallery because we want to see everybody We don't need to see everybody.
00:15:23:19 - 00:15:24:17
Marisa
Absolutely.
00:15:25:08 - 00:15:44:02
Wayne
Once when we're joining saying hello. Absolutely. It's a social event. Say hi to everybody. You know, do all that. But when the meeting starts or the presentation starts, I switch to speaker view so that I'm not distracted by all that stuff.
00:15:45:11 - 00:15:48:10
Marisa
I will definitely have to try that at our next all team meeting.
00:15:49:08 - 00:15:52:15
Wayne
Yeah. It's a very, very simple thing.
00:15:56:00 - 00:16:21:19
Wayne
And we can get control of this. I mean, I jokingly said earlier that, you know, human beings have invented anything that we haven't completely ruined. And this is true. But also almost everything that we've invented, we have more control over it than we think we do. And I think webcams are a perfect example of something that got invented, got thrust upon us.
00:16:21:23 - 00:16:31:22
Wayne
We were told to use them, and we were never given the criteria to make intelligent, critical decisions about when do we use them, when do we not.
00:16:34:03 - 00:16:57:18
Marisa
Moving on from that. So speaking of times that we don't know the right thing to do and what the etiquette really is, I do want to talk a little bit about virtual background etiquette, so I know that those have become really popular. I believe Zoom launched them right around the time that we all went on lockdown. And so you see a lot of people using them sometimes not successfully.
00:16:58:04 - 00:17:08:19
Marisa
So I guess my question is like, what's okay? What's not okay other than the obvious make your picture appropriate. And when should you avoid using them?
00:17:08:19 - 00:17:13:10
Wayne
There are no hard and fast rules, but it's not so much rules as it is guidelines.
00:17:13:10 - 00:17:13:21
Marisa
Right.
00:17:13:23 - 00:17:43:05
Wayne
And this will be the last. This will be the last thing for this session because Tempus Fugit. But I think the goal is to communicate if what is going on around you diminishes that communication or distracts from that communication. It doesn't work. Now, when we all got sent home, not everybody had a place with a door and a neutral background that they present in front of.
00:17:44:14 - 00:17:49:11
Wayne
You don't want the world to know you're working from the north end of the dining room table,
00:17:49:11 - 00:17:50:07
Marisa
Right.
00:17:50:07 - 00:17:58:02
Wayne
You don't need to see the kids running around behind you and the dog doing whatever the heck the dog is doing. And right.
00:17:58:02 - 00:17:59:19
Wayne
We have all kinds of horror stories.
00:17:59:20 - 00:18:05:05
Wayne
So the notion and you know, we've all got our favorite that showed up on the news, right?
00:18:05:05 - 00:18:06:05
Marisa
Yes.
00:18:06:05 - 00:18:24:22
Wayne
So having a background, I mean, in this case, for those of you who are listening to this, you can't see this. We both have perfectly boring, neutral blank walls behind us that work fine for this. We have the option of choosing something.
00:18:24:23 - 00:18:40:15
Wayne
Now, sometimes if it's a casual kind of thing, I will do it to be silly. There is a background in Microsoft Teams that looks like a like you're inside a cartoon spaceship with robots. I have used that.
00:18:41:05 - 00:18:52:20
Wayne
I have used that in Zoom. There is a photo of the Las Vegas sign that I use as my background fairly frequently. It's a topic of conversation.
00:18:53:04 - 00:18:53:12
Marisa
Right.
00:18:53:22 - 00:19:05:21
Wayne
It is casual. It takes it doesn't look boring. It- a lot of people are amused by the fact I live in Las Vegas and it starts conversations, always starts, "How's the weather," that kind of thing.
00:19:07:01 - 00:19:30:15
Wayne
What I would tell you is your background needs to be appropriate to the communication that's taking place. Yes. And it needs to not be a distraction. So some people put up, you know, they'll put photographs up and you can use any photograph. All forms allow you to just upload photographs, which is where I get some of these things from.
00:19:31:22 - 00:19:55:14
Wayne
But be aware that it works like a green screen. And so if you move your hands or you're holding something or you're trying to demonstrate something, it blurs out and looks weird. So when you are using a background do not use a new background for the first time when the vice president is on the line.
00:19:56:17 - 00:19:57:13
Marisa
Yes.
00:19:58:05 - 00:20:27:08
Wayne
Test your background. Make sure it's appropriate. Make sure that it is not distracting. And make sure that you can do whatever you need to do. Right. If you're holding things up and they disappear because of the way the green screen works. That's going to be a problem. So my attitude about this is exactly about technology, which is you use the least amount to accomplish whatever you want to accomplish.
00:20:27:18 - 00:20:30:01
Marisa
Right. It's part of your 80/20 rule. Right?
00:20:30:12 - 00:20:53:16
Wayne
Well, it's just part of me not being all that crazy about technology. And so at the same time, I'm lazy and want to be effective. So I will use the technology to the point where it becomes more work than it's worth. So I think where we're going to leave this around the backgrounds today is it's got to be appropriate.
00:20:55:03 - 00:21:01:01
Wayne
It can't be distracting and it can't diminish your credibility.
00:21:01:11 - 00:21:01:20
Marisa
Yes.
00:21:03:02 - 00:21:05:10
Wayne
And test it before you use it.
00:21:07:04 - 00:21:43:10
Marisa
Sounds great. So that's all for today. I want to thank you everybody who is listening for joining us today. Thank you, Wayne, for answering our questions. If you have any questions you would like us to answer in a future episode, make sure to go to longdistanceworklife.com. That's where you can also see show notes for all of our episodes. Watch videos. If you're listening to this on your podcast app. And you can ask us questions and we will answer them on a future episode. Thank you so much for joining us. Please make sure to like and subscribe. Tell your friends about us, rate and review. You've heard podcasts before. You know how this works. So thank you for being here and we'll see you next time.
